bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 15:38:54
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I happen to have a hub on the DAW side of the room.
I swapped that one with the suspect one. We'll see.
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Mooch4056
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 15:46:06
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bapu
I happen to have a hub on the DAW side of the room.
I swapped that one with the suspect one. We'll see.
I hope it's not a gay looking hub..... Like the tux you have to wear on August 25
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 15:48:32
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Mooch4056
bapu
I happen to have a hub on the DAW side of the room.
I swapped that one with the suspect one. We'll see.
I hope it's not a gay looking hub..... Like the tux you have to wear on August 25
No it is a manly hub. Like my moobs. That appears to not have solved the issue either. Dang.
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Beagle
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 15:51:35
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bapu
Mooch4056
bapu
I happen to have a hub on the DAW side of the room.
I swapped that one with the suspect one. We'll see.
I hope it's not a gay looking hub..... Like the tux you have to wear on August 25
No it is a manly hub. Like my moobs.
That appears to not have solved the issue either. Dang.
guess you don't have a sniffer?
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daryl1968
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:02:08
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joking apart, I think it's your provider
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Mooch4056
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:08:41
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Why don't you just go walk up the attic and check ..... Sheesh
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:11:47
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I think I've determined that it is not the hub. What I failed to mention earlier is that I actually operate on two hubs (technically three, but I'm currently using the third to have tested the hub theory).
As of right now my hard wiring flow is:
DSL Modem ----> Hub1:-->Port5, Port4(empty), Port3-->WAP (currently disconnected), Port2-->Laptop, Port1-->Hub2
Hub2: Port1-->DAW, Port2-->NAS, Port3-->Ubuntu Server, Port4-->XP Work Station, Port5-->XP Workstation, Port6-->The Lovely Lady
When I lose connectivity (and the modem indicates all is well), the DAW, the laptop and The Lovely Lady all lose internet access. From the DAW and the laptop I can access the NAS.
That tells me (for now) that both hubs are fully functioning, as my laptop gains access to the NAS thru HUB1 which in turn is connected to HUB2 which has the NAS.
The DAW is connected to HUB2 where the NAS is.
The Lovely Lady is connected to HUB2 which is connected to HUB1.
That would say HUB1 is the culprit, right? But...... I just replaced HUB1 with HUB3 and we still lose connectivity.
So am I down to wiring of the telco line through the house?
Edit: We not use the telco line for phone access (i.e. no phones are connected to the telco line).
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:20:48
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bapu
Edit: We not use the telco line for phone access (i.e. no phones are connected to the telco line). Well, not exactly true. We do use the line for faxing. So, technically we have a "phone" connected. Yes, the line is split for the fax machine and it is on a filter. I just replaced the filter before the last outage.
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Beagle
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:21:04
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my next troubleshooting step, if I were you, would be to disconnect everything.
take the DSL modem outside where the DSL comes into the house, (called the demark) unplug the house, plug the modem directly into the demark jack, connect 1 computer up to the modem and see if the problem still exists.
if so, it's either the DSL modem or it's on the DSL side of the demark (in other words - the ISP's fault)
if not, the problem lies somewhere in the house.
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drewfx1
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:27:16
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Beagle
take the DSL modem outside where the DSL comes into the house, (called the demark) It was nice of you to mark it for him.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:30:41
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I think I just may have determined a possible "source" of the problem.
I just called fax number. It's busy. But it's not. I'm looking right at it. And as I said, there are no phones connected anywhere in our house to the line. And there are only two access points to the phone in our whole house (AFAIK). The kitchen and my office. I just disconnected the fax machine at the splitter and the phone line is still busy.
I think a simpler check will be to plug a phone in at the demark and see it I can "call" the number and get a ring.
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Mooch4056
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:34:31
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ok Bapsi try this - Connect hub 3 to the laptop. Connect the land line to the Lovely Lady as she stands on one foot and hums a CHB song. Connect that wire to hub two. Connect hub two to the main computer. And the WEP thing. Run that line to the attic and connect it to hub 1. Shut on and off the circuit breaker. At this time its important that the Lovey Lady switch to humming a different CHB song. When she get half way through the song reboot the laptop into safe mode. Run over to the Lovley Lady and stomp your right foot 3 times and clap after beats. Then calmly walk over to your laptop and reboot out of safe mode and start up windows normally. I can't tell you how many times I have been through this and have gotton it to work!!
post edited by Mooch4056 - 2012/06/06 16:40:23
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Beagle
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:35:09
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bapu
I think I just may have determined a possible "source" of the problem.
I just called fax number. It's busy. But it's not. I'm looking right at it. And as I said, there are no phones connected anywhere in our house to the line. And there are only two access points to the phone in our whole house (AFAIK). The kitchen and my office. I just disconnected the fax machine at the splitter and the phone line is still busy.
I think a simpler check will be to plug a phone in at the demark and see it I can "call" the number and get a ring.
yes, but I think you'll still need the splitter at the demark before the phone
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Ham N Egz
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:46:09
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you may have a hinky DSL filter on one analog phone ....
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Mooch4056
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 16:52:43
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Mooch4056
ok Bapsi try this -
Connect hub 3 to the laptop. Connect the land line to the Lovely Lady as she stands on one foot and hums a CHB song. Connect that wire to hub two. Connect hub two to the main computer. And the WEP thing. Run that line to the attic and connect it to hub 1. Shut on and off the circuit breaker. At this time its important that the Lovey Lady switch to humming a different CHB song. When she get half way through the song reboot the laptop into safe mode. Run over to the Lovley Lady and stomp your right foot 3 times and clap after beats. Then calmly walk over to your laptop and reboot out of safe mode and start up windows normally.
I can't tell you how many times I have been through this and have gotton it to work!!
this is the solution ...i am telling YOU!!
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 17:05:43
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musicman100
you may have a hinky DSL filter on one analog phone ....
You may not have read carefully. That's OK we all do it. I have NO phones anywhere in the house. The ONLY filter is at the fax machine and I've swapped that out. And currently it is not even connected so at the moment the only thing connected is the DSL modem. That does not explain why the "line" is busy when I call it and when I do connect the analog phone there is no dial tone. Reece, I went to the demark point. Sadly it is the old style terminal (not a phone jack) so I'll have to some work to get a phone connected to it. Guess I'm off to the attic. Just to prove Mooch wrong (on his suggested fix).
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Ham N Egz
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 17:24:43
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bapu
musicman100
you may have a hinky DSL filter on one analog phone ....
You may not have read carefully. That's OK we all do it.
I have NO phones anywhere in the house. The ONLY filter is at the fax machine and I've swapped that out. And currently it is not even connected so at the moment the only thing connected is the DSL modem.
That does not explain why the "line" is busy when I call it and when I do connect the analog phone there is no dial tone.
Reece, I went to the demark point. Sadly it is the old style terminal (not a phone jack) so I'll have to some work to get a phone connected to it.
Guess I'm off to the attic. Just to prove Mooch wrong (on his suggested fix).
Yes I didnt line busy when you call/no dialtone at jack = faculities trouble(CO) or more likely a wiring issue either in their cable plant or your premise wiring... a shorted pair will give a busy no dial tone symptom.
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Beagle
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 17:32:00
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bapu
musicman100
you may have a hinky DSL filter on one analog phone ....
You may not have read carefully. That's OK we all do it.
I have NO phones anywhere in the house. The ONLY filter is at the fax machine and I've swapped that out. And currently it is not even connected so at the moment the only thing connected is the DSL modem.
That does not explain why the "line" is busy when I call it and when I do connect the analog phone there is no dial tone.
Reece, I went to the demark point. Sadly it is the old style terminal (not a phone jack) so I'll have to some work to get a phone connected to it.
Guess I'm off to the attic. Just to prove Mooch wrong (on his suggested fix).
yeah, I was afraid you'd say that. that makes it a little more complicated to troubleshoot.
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 17:49:41
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I think I have the parts somewhere. If not they'll cost < $5.
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Ham N Egz
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 17:58:06
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a butt set would be the quickest, if not make an adaptor rj 11 jack to two PG jumpers with alligator clips , clip on the terminals
RJ 11 jack (biscuit style)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one jumper to red wire terminal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other jumper to green terminjal
plug phone into biscuit clip jumpers on to demarc red green
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Bub 
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:01:45
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Hi Bapu,
I used to troubleshoot these kind of problems all the time back when I worked on fax machines.
There are 3 voltages coming through your land line.
With your phone On Hook you should read 40 ~ 50 Volts DC
With the phone ringing you should read roughly 90 Volts AC (This one is hard to read because it's 1 second on, 1 second off. You need a fast digital meter to read it.)
With your phone Off Hook you should read 7 ~ 12 Volts DC
If you are getting a constant busy signal it means there is a problem on the phone company's end (bad wire, a problem at the switching station, or a plethora of other stuff), a problem with a phone, fax, DSL filter, or answering machine in your house, or wiring in your house.
Typically you are responsible for the wiring that starts after that test jack Beagle was telling you about unless you have some kind of extra coverage you pay for from the phone company. That's how it works here, not sure about elsewhere.
Disconnect everything, including your DSL stuff inside your house and find where the wire comes in from the phone company. What I used to do is, I would open the box, disconnect the wires that go to the house, and plug a little hand set in right at the test jack that Beagle described.
I also had a single line to dual line splitter, I had a single line phone, and 2 phone cords I chopped one end off of and spliced back the shielding on the exposed wires for my meter probes, and the other in case it's an older installation and there is no test jack. Then I would just screw my test cable on, and plug the other end in to my test phone.
I could check On Hook, Off Hook, and I would call the number from my cell to check Ring Voltage, right there at the source.
You have to determine if the problem is in your house, or on the phone company's end. Or, if you don't mind paying/have it covered, just call them.
I loved troubleshooting these kind of problems. 99.9% of the time, it was a problem on the phone company's end, even after the customer called and the phone company supposedly tested the line and said it was ok.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:25:37
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Update:
1. The Lovely lady reminded me that there were a total of four telco access jacks in the house.
2. Yes there were four lines going into the telco demark point.
3. I disconnected the three we do not use in the house (kitchen, bedroom and Master Bath terlit room).
4. The busy signal went away. That's good.
5. The loss of connectivity is still happening.
So now I need to go back to Reece's idea. Take the modem to the demark. Connect up a telco jack (outside). Bring the laptop directly to the modem at the demark. Wait for lost connectivity.
Although, it might be easier to run 200' of telco line to the house from the demark point (it's cooler in the house).
Tomorrow. I just got sunstroke doing all that.
Phone company is scheduled
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daryl1968
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:27:54
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Listen to Bub, Bapu - 99.9% of the time it's the phone co
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:36:10
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Bub
Disconnect everything, including your DSL stuff inside your house and find where the wire comes in from the phone company. What I used to do is, I would open the box, disconnect the wires that go to the house, and plug a little hand set in right at the test jack that Beagle described.
It's OK you did not read everything either.  I don't have test jack at the demark point. It's the old style terminal box. The house was build in 1957 and remodeled in 1987. It was hit in miss in the 80's if you got a test jack at the demark point. I'm beginning to think it's in house wiring and the busy signal was somehow caused by having all four telco points connected at the demark point. Looks like I'll be busy over the next few days installing a new wire from demark to my office (and that is truly complicated based on the structure of our house). Also, I went in the attic and the telco wiring is really well hidden so pulling backwards is probably not an option. I'll tell you this though..... it's going in conduit. Dang, lost connectivity while trying to post this. I copy my text before I hit send nowadays. 
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:38:52
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daryl1968
Listen to Bub, Bapu - 99.9% of the time it's the phone co
I'm only 1% convinced. Since the phone co won't be here until Friday I have tomorrow to prove it out (with 200' of new telco line run outside the house). Don't want to get charged by the telco if it is in the house. That's my deal. I never pay for "in house" insurance.
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daryl1968
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:45:18
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bapu
daryl1968
Listen to Bub, Bapu - 99.9% of the time it's the phone co
I'm only 1% convinced. Since the phone co won't be here until Friday I have tomorrow to prove it out (with 200' of new telco line run outside the house). Don't want to get charged by the telco if it is in the house. That's my deal. I never pay for "in house" insurance.
but that's 101.9%.......
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 18:48:38
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See? I go the extra measure (The CHB hates when I do that  ).
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Bub
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 19:12:39
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bapu
Bub
Disconnect everything, including your DSL stuff inside your house and find where the wire comes in from the phone company. What I used to do is, I would open the box, disconnect the wires that go to the house, and plug a little hand set in right at the test jack that Beagle described.
It's OK you did not read everything either. I don't have test jack at the demark point. It's the old style terminal box. The house was build in 1957 and remodeled in 1987. It was hit in miss in the 80's if you got a test jack at the demark point.
Yeah, I saw what you wrote, that's why I mentioned the cable and just tapping in to it if there is no jack. BTW ... it's actually demarc. It's an abbreviation for demarcation point. I guess it doesn't matter though. doh!  I'm beginning to think it's in house wiring and the busy signal was somehow caused by having all four telco points connected at the demark point.
If the voltage is low coming in, you can have problems the more devices you have connected in your house. Wish I was closer, I'd come over and help you with it. I like tinkering with these kind of problems and have all the gear set up to test it in 60 seconds. Good luck! :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 19:14:48
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Bub,
Does it matter that the Telco says the line tests fine and the results indicate the problem is in the house wiring?
I know, it's probably their standard response.
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bapu
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Re:My internet connectivity - hope we don't have rats in the attic
2012/06/06 19:17:15
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Bub
BTW ... it's actually demarc. It's an abbreviation for demarcation point. I guess it doesn't matter though. doh!
Got it. Thanks. Just measured and I need ~135' of new telco line to be able to run outside the house back to my office (opposite sides of the house).
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