Skyline_UK
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SOLVED: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
I have a song tracked up and realise to do the vocal I need to raise the pitch of the (non percussion) tracks by a tone. If I do this with each clip (each track has one continuous clip) in the Inspector timings go to pot and some of the tracks gargle artifacts. I moved the WAVs to Studio One, put '2' in the transpose field of each track - 100% perfect, no artifacts, job done in under a minute. I've experienced this before. So, am I doing something wrong or is this just how it is? 
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2013/11/08 03:31:57
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icontakt
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 08:12:02
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As we all know, every daw has strengths and weaknesses. And this, I think, is one of the weaknesses of Sonar.
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Beepster
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 08:55:11
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I haven't done this myself but there are multiple ways. As you mentioned the Inspector is one. If you are doing it that way and getting artifacts try the different render algorithms and bounce/rendering the tracks. Different algos work better for different types of tracks.
There is also the Process menu which I believe is supposed to have superior pitch shifting quality. In In the Advanced Workshop vids Craig uses it to pitch shift upwards to octaves and it's flawless. One tone shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest drawback compared to other DAWs I guess is that to get the higher quality renders you have to do them offline. You can also change the online render settings which might help as well but those are only really meant to audition changes before rendering from what I understand.
But... I'm no expert on this stuff. I've just read about it and watched lots of vids on the subject.
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bladetragic
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 09:09:06
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Yeah there's the Transpose Audio option in the Process menu which seems to work pretty well w/ the Radius algorithms but it will probably take quite a bit of time to process an entire song. Not to mention it's more of a destructive process. You'd probably want to create a new session or copy of the tracks at the original pitch just in case you change your mind or want to go back. As said above, this is one of the areas where Sonar is lacking behind some of the other DAWs.
post edited by bladetragic - 2013/11/07 09:16:26
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 10:01:43
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Thanks. I tried Process/Transpose and that worked fine.
I thought I had to use the pitch adjustment box in the Inspector's Groove Clip section, but that simply doesn't work.
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Beepster
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 10:07:00
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Skyline_UK
Thanks. I tried Process/Transpose and that worked fine.
I thought I had to use the pitch adjustment box in the Inspector's Groove Clip section, but that simply doesn't work.
Cool, but as I said bouncing the track with the correct offline settings should get you better results VIA the Inspector. Probably more work than the Process function anyway though. Glad you got it working.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 10:21:55
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melodyne is another, potentially more pleasing option - yet slightly more "work": double click clip, select all, drag up one note ... but has to be done per clip/track (can't think of a batch mode)...
BTW, melodyne is non-destructive
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Beepster
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 10:29:34
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FreeFlyBertl
melodyne is another, potentially more pleasing option - yet slightly more "work": double click clip, select all, drag up one note ... but has to be done per clip/track (can't think of a batch mode)...
BTW, melodyne is non-destructive
I was gonna mention Melodyne but wasn't sure how the entirety of an audio signal would work due to the monophonic nature of Melodyne Essential. Will it actually adjust everything upward as opposed to the just the strongest tones?
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 15:05:36
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Beepster
FreeFlyBertl
melodyne is another, potentially more pleasing option - yet slightly more "work": double click clip, select all, drag up one note ... but has to be done per clip/track (can't think of a batch mode)...
BTW, melodyne is non-destructive
I was gonna mention Melodyne but wasn't sure how the entirety of an audio signal would work due to the monophonic nature of Melodyne Essential. Will it actually adjust everything upward as opposed to the just the strongest tones?
since i have never tried it on a stem or mix i just did - and it works quite well actually. but i have to say that i own melodyne editor since the pre-x3 days ... and melodyne editor does the full monty i.e. the chord thingy - whatever you call it (multi-timbral?) - anyway, it finds each note of a chord and lets you drag it around individually but i just selected all and draged it up a note and there we were ...
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Beepster
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 15:28:40
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FreeFlyBertl
Beepster
FreeFlyBertl
melodyne is another, potentially more pleasing option - yet slightly more "work": double click clip, select all, drag up one note ... but has to be done per clip/track (can't think of a batch mode)...
BTW, melodyne is non-destructive
I was gonna mention Melodyne but wasn't sure how the entirety of an audio signal would work due to the monophonic nature of Melodyne Essential. Will it actually adjust everything upward as opposed to the just the strongest tones?
since i have never tried it on a stem or mix i just did - and it works quite well actually.
but i have to say that i own melodyne editor since the pre-x3 days ... and melodyne editor does the full monty i.e. the chord thingy - whatever you call it (multi-timbral?) - anyway, it finds each note of a chord and lets you drag it around individually
but i just selected all and draged it up a note and there we were ...
That's good to know and probably a much better/simpler solution than the Process or Inspector options. Seems like a very good addition to the Sonar bundle. Also I think the term they use is Polyphonic for the multi tonal stuff. On the Celemony site they say Essential is Monophonic and Editor is Polyphonic. Cool stuff.
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Beepster
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 15:33:49
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Oh... wait, you said you had Editor already. Were you using Melodyne Editor for your tests or the version that came with Sonar? I think if you have Editor it automatically integrates into Sonar... or something so that might have allowed the whole clip to transpose.
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Microtonic
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 15:46:56
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Really why?
Studio One have Melodyne to but S1 can do it without Melodyne. Reaper can do it more perfect and... certainly Cubase... attention!!! Cubase 5 can do this better.
Sonar X3 should say thanks to Melodyne? :) Because without it everything remains in the same place.
Sonar X3 good DAW but not the best. I hope Sonar X4 will be better.
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VariousArtist
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 21:44:14
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I don't know Studio One too well, nor do I particularly care for its interface, but I have to say this is one area where it seemed a lot more obvious *to me* where to alter the overall pitch of a clip natively (that is, without resorting to any plug-in or Melodyne or V-Vocals, etc.).
On the rare occasion that I want to change the pitch in Sonar, I find myself doing a double-take of the options in the inspector to find what I'm looking for. Not a huge deal, but it's one of those functions that could stand out a bit more in my opinion.
Btw, I only usually change the pitch of something if I'm experimenting during composition or if I'm trying to work out a part for another band where the pitch way off from A=440. Being able to quickly change and audition the pitch change is key (no pun intended)....
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Anderton
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 21:55:12
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Sonar's offline transpose algorithm, courtesy of iZotope, has excellent fidelity compared to other solutions. But it's not real time, nor does it do pitch change other than a semitone. I'd like to be able to change pitch by, for example, 10 or 20 cents.
The quality of the Groove Clip transposition feature depends on the amount of transposition, and it has to work in real time...so that's always a challenge.
Studio One Pro's real time transposition is very good when compared to other real-time pitch transposers, but ultimately offline transposition beats real-time transposition for fidelity, and real-time transposition beats offline transposition for convenience.
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VariousArtist
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 21:58:33
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I agree Craig, and it makes sense the way you describe. As with all choices, it would be nice to have both ;-)
(I was going to resist saying "have my Cakewalk and eat it too", but I failed)
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Silicon Audio
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/07 22:29:13
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It's not often I've needed to change the pitch of an entire project for the same reason as the OP, but when I have, I must admit that I've had to stop and think long and hard about the best way to achieve my goal in Sonar. An easier way to do this would be great, but this is definitely in my "nice to have" list versus my "must have" list.
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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Anderton
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/08 00:53:51
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Silicon Audio
It's not often I've needed to change the pitch of an entire project for the same reason as the OP, but when I have, I must admit that I've had to stop and think long and hard about the best way to achieve my goal in Sonar. An easier way to do this would be great, but this is definitely in my "nice to have" list versus my "must have" list.
If I need to change the pitch of an entire project, I load the final stereo mix into Sound Forge and use its offline stretching algorithm, which is excellent - especially if you don't compensate for duration.
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/08 03:31:16
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As the OP, just to clarify and give Sonar credit where it's due. Once I'd found the best way to do this I got perfect results.
Turning the track clips into groove clips produces problems. Using Process/Transpose is the way, ticking the Audio Clip box and selecting the appropriate offline algorithm, e.g. the 'bass' one for the bass track. I shifted nine varied tracks up by four semitones and the results were excellent. So my problem was not using the correct Sonar tool for the particular job.
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bruckner2
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Re: Pitch changes - Studio One can do it so why can't Sonar?
2013/11/08 05:13:34
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idk if you have sound forge 10, but the elastique time/pitch shifter in it is freakin awesome 
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