*SOLVED* Recording from a Mixer into the DAW: Direct Outs vs. Aux sends?

This is more or less "solved". I've been sticking to the direct outs but it's nice to know the aux outs are there and useable for such things. I have however learned quite a bit (and relearned a lot) about my mixer and mixers in general. Thanks, all. Cool convo.
 
OP below for those who are curious.
 
Hello, all. Hope everyone is well. I posted a similar thread like these a couple years ago but really didn't know WTF I was trying to ask so here I am again, hat in hand, looking for scraps of advice.
 
I will list the applicable gear I have first so everyone knows what I'm looking at.
 
Mixer = Mackie CR1604 (old analog American version... not the fancy new ones with the digital connectors)
Connections (that apply to this convo):
 
1) There are 8 direct outs for the first 8 channels. They are post Trim/EQ/Fader. There are no separate controls for the output level coming from these direct outs. The level being outputted by these direct outs is basically controlled by adjusting the fader or input trim. They also have a bunch of other features based on what type of cable is used and how far it's pushed it but that doesn't matter for what I'm doing/asking.
 
2) There are six Aux outputs. Each channel has 4 Aux level knobs that allow that channel to be outputted to the corresponding Aux out connector (so each channel can be sent to four different Aux outputs individually, all at once or in any combo by adjusting the corresponding level knob). There is a button that switches the 3/4 aux outputs to be sent to the 5/6 outputs instead and then the 3/4 knobs control the output level (but that't just a routing thing and doesn't matter really for this convo). There is also a switch on each channel that makes all of it's Aux outputs Pre or Post EQ/Fader.
 
Interface = Focusrite Scarlett 18i6
Connections: It has six 1/4" line ins on the back which are what I am using to connect the mixer to as well as the multi ins on the front panel (it also has a bunch of other stuff that don't apply here).
 
Things being connected: Line 6 Duoverb (I'm using the two XLR balanced outputs but it has line outs, effects send/returns, etc), Traynor TS-140 (has a single XLR balanced out and confusing old school ins/outs... it is very old and I have not tried much with it yet but the XLR out will probably be used) and the usual mics for vocals, micing the guitar speakers, acoustic guitar, whatever.
 
So I have tired of using the multi ins on the Scarlett. They sound good but are limited as they only have one control for each of the two channels (input trim). There is no EQ section or other goodies and if I engage phantom power it affects both inputs. Also... well there is only two XLR inputs which is limiting in itself. I also get concerned about wearing out the semi cheap feeling plastic Multi In jack (one of my very few complaints about the unit).
 
With the Mackie I can have Phantom Powered mics and dynamics running at the same time, the pres are nice, there is a sweet sounding eq section, it's sturdy as heck, etc. Also since I discovered my TU-2 may act as a splitter I can send the XLR outs of my Line6 (or whatever) and have a fully processed signal (including mics on the cab) while still sending a dry signal to the Scarlett's multi in (for amp sims).
 
So the conundrum is do I use the direct outs which have less controls or the Aux outs to feed the Scarlett? Most of the stuff I'm reading (including the manual for the mixer) is saying to use the direct outs to send to an external recording device. However I also see people saying that IF direct outs aren't available on a mixer using Aux outs is a solution.
 
Basically considering I can seemingly get more functionality out of the Aux outputs (because I can control the level going to the interface AND bypass the EQ if I so desire which is doubtful but it is an extra option... and I could mix channels together if I want which again seems doubtful but it is an option) the only downside seems to be that I would have two less possible outputs from the mixer which I probably won't need in my modest home setup. Even then there are many other routing options that I could use if I did need more outputs.
 
Is there some magical awesomeness about direct outs (which I actually bought this board for because I didn't understand Aux routing) that I am overlooking? Crosstalk between channels? Different gain considerations (this board touts a really wide gain range to cover most applications from the way the manual brags)? 
 
Just looking for some insights as to what the best way to proceed here is and/or things I should be aware of/look out for before proceeding with further tests. So far the direct outs do work and have for a long time but if I can have that extra level control it would be really helpful methinks.
 
Cheers and thanks. I'm a busy little Beep these days so I'll be back and forth.
 

Oh and another benefit to using Aux outs is all 16 channels have access to the 6 aux outs (4 at a time with level controls for the chosen 4 outs) whereas only the first 8 channels have the direct outs. I could have cables hooked up and channels set for specific things (vox, amps, etc) and just unhook them from the Scarlett when not in use (and mute the channel on the mixer). Might be a time saver.

scook
I would imagine the direct outs have less noise than the aux outs. Fortunately it is not an either/or situation there might be a good reason to use both. 4 direct and 4 aux out would be a good compromise.

Interesting. Any idea what would be the cause of that noise? Keep in mind this is not a cheap board (supposedly). It's supposed to be suited for pro film/audio applications and Mackie goes to great lengths to claim all connections and controls are equally awesome (even the headphone output).
 
However that is coming from them so who knows. It is from before they moved production offshore though so this is the old Mackie. Not the newer, less desirable stuff.
 
Thanks.

Ah, scook... you have given me an idea to test the difference. I only have 6 direct Line Ins on the Scarlett (I'd be concerned the Multi Ins on the Scarlett might color the sound thus ruining the test). From the mixer I could use 3 direct outs and 3 aux outs on the same signal making sure the levels are matched as evenly as possible once they hit the Scarlett. I record all six and compare the two groups of three.
 
Thanks.
 
Still looking for any other thoughts on this though.

Bah. I kind of spaced on what you were saying. The confusion either way should be minimal now that I understand the board a little better. Aux and Alt and other strange outputs/inputs confused the heck out of me until today but it's all very simple in retrospect. All I'd have to do is stick to the numbers. Knob 1 = Aux 1 = Scarlett in 3, Knob 2 = Aux 2 = Scarlett in 4, etc.
 
What gets confusing is how Sonar sees the inputs what with the "In 1" and "In 2" on the interface both being called "In 1 (left, right and Stereo)" but I'm used to that now. No biggie.

Hi, Leadfoot. They are pretty slick aren't they? Unfortunately I was a little too... er... uneducated to really make full use of it until now. I kept creating loops and doing other stupid stuff when trying to use it beyond basic i/o. It was very frustrating but after not touching it for a few years and learning more about audio it's making a heckuva a lot more sense.
 
Yours is a little more modern than mine. I recall seeing that model when I was looking at mixers but they were being sold for at least twice as much. Mine is the original version and it is pretty huge. It also, IIRC, doesn't have some of the extra features yours does that are more geared toward digital recording (but what those features are I have no idea at this point).
 
I really lucked out when I got this. It was something like $300 in mint condition whereas others around that price were beat to hell and none of them came with the additional input pod. Apparently it had been sitting in a hotel board room tucked away in the podium or something and only used for speeches and stuff. It might as well have been right out of the box.
 
I was testing it out a bit yesterday through Sonar and man does it sound good. The EQ is particularly nice and I just learned today that Mackie designed the EQ to control things more logically in regards to music (as opposed to usual band placement on older boards... or so they claim but it does seem to make a difference). I used to use it with my old Layla 3G and Nuendo but I think it sounds much crisper through the Scarlett and Sonar. It has been a very long time since I used the old set up though so I could just be imagining it.
 
Either way I'm glad I kept it as opposed to liquidating it during my great poverty purge a few years ago.
 
Cheers.

Well with all the wacky stuff I want to try and a desire to get as many possible signal sources (so I cab choose/blend the best) I could see using up all 8 inputs on the Scarlett (with the multi jacks) but for most stuff I'm thinking 2-4 off the board (like two for the Line 6 dual channel outs and two for mics on the cab). Then a split clean signal going DI via the multi jack for sims.
 
When I start recording acoustic guitar I might go crazier but I would need some more stands... lol.

Thanks, man. Just wish I had more time/energy to get more stuff produced. I guess that's a common complaint though.

I used one of those for years teamed up with an 8 track. First a Tascam cassette then latter the Yamaha MD8 digital. I always used the direct outs as it was a no brainier. I still have the short wiring harness ( 1/4" to RCA x 8 ) It had the pod thing on the bottom to add more XLR channels right? 
And it was cool ( If I remember ) that the direct outs were separate from the insert jacks? Right? Cause I think I had 3 channels with compressors patched in too. 
I used all the aux for cue mixes and effects. 
I was a fool for selling it but I needed the cash to buy my 01V.  
But one thing I do sort of remember was that Mackie reversed pin 2 and 3 on the main outputs so your out of phase with some gear..could be ? long time ago and I have a very small brain... need more banana coffee...
 
Your gunna love using a mixer, I couldn't be without one

I've just re-integrated a little Mackie mixer to my set up. At first I figured that the USB port would provide an easy solution for 2 way connectivity, but since it's USB 1.1 and 16-bit only, I had to resort to traditional cables.
 
In this case, because there is no Alt Out, this meant using Aux sends to send the signal to my Scarlett. Does it degrade the signal? I don't know. All I can say is that being able to use the Mackie's EQ on the way in outweigh any disadvantage - especially if I'm tracking with the POD HD. 
 
 

So after working on this most of the afternoon (well the past three days really) I've got things working quite well for my first configuration (Guit to TU-2 with one split going to the Metal Zone into the Line 6 set to split channel and then two outputs going to the board and the second split from the TU-2 going to the multi in on the interface). As much as I wanted to try out the Aux outs (mostly because I finally learned how to use them really) and having that extra level control I've read up on all devices involved and general gain staging with hardware and it's now kind of a no brainer set it and forget it situation with the direct outs (and in retrospect the extra level knob would probably be just one more thing to think about). I'm getting a LOT of sweet bite and crunch out of the board so this seems to be a success. The only crummy thing is the hum from the MT-2 but the sims do that anyway. It was a lot of work too because I had to deal with troubleshooting wonked cables and making decisions on what devices should have which levels set how (the sound wasn't quite as good if I sent the signal into the board hotter with the trim turned down so I turned the output on the Line6 down despite the L6 manual stating that it should be turned up more than anything else but whatever... I guess the board preamps like being pushed a little). All in all a successful and functional experiment. This tone will go onto my current recording.
 
I do think I may get better results from the Traynor. I also want to toss some mics into things but that is going to be a much more elaborate experiment and I'll have to clean up the tiny room a bit to accommodate stands and whatnot.
 
I also discovered ANOTHER tuner pedal I have that might act as a splitter so I'm trying to wrap my brain around maybe having both amps running while still having a direct in going to the interface. Currently it's an either or type deal. Eventually once I learn more about what works best for what I won't need these elaborate set ups (I can just make a plan for the track and hook things up the way they need to be) but for now the luxury of all these different sources should be useful.
 
I really do need a proper DI splitter thingie though but I have more important purchases to make at the moment.
 

Rain
I've just re-integrated a little Mackie mixer to my set up. At first I figured that the USB port would provide an easy solution for 2 way connectivity, but since it's USB 1.1 and 16-bit only, I had to resort to traditional cables.
 
In this case, because there is no Alt Out, this meant using Aux sends to send the signal to my Scarlett. Does it degrade the signal? I don't know. All I can say is that being able to use the Mackie's EQ on the way in outweigh any disadvantage - especially if I'm tracking with the POD HD. 
 

After messing around with this all afternoon I gotta say the best part of running through this Mackie is definitely the EQ. I barely have to touch the thing to drastically alter the sound and it pretty much ALWAYS seems to alter it in a good way as opposed to other boards I've owned where I seem to be chasing the sound I want but never quite catching it.
 
Very nice.

The low cut at 100Hz is one of the reasons I picked the Mackie instead of the other mixers I was considering. In conjunction with the low shelf at 80Hz, it allows me to really clean up the POD HD.
 
A little notch at 2.5 takes care of the rest and the guitar just seems to sit in the mix so much better, right from the start. I got so carried away with it that I spent almost 2 hours jamming with that set up last night, just for fun. It really tightens things up.
 
 

I have a CR1604-VLZ that I bought new in 1997.  In my current setup I use the direct outs either directly into my Delta 1010 or into a rack of dbx 160A compressors (which then go into the Delta 1010).  This setup works great for recording drums
 
The board is designed for split monitoring, or in other words, record to tape using channels 1-8 and then monitor back through the board using channels 9-16.
 
“Traditionally” there were two methods to output to tape using the Mackie.  Either the DIRECT OUTS or the SUB OUTS.  At that point in the history of home multitrack recording, if you wanted to maximize your routing flexibility you would use the DIRECT OUTS of channels 1-4 into channels 1-4 of your multitrack recorder and then use the 4 SUB OUTS into channels 5-8 of the multitrack recorder.  It was (is?) also possible to use splitter cables on the 4 SUB OUTS into all 8 inputs on the multitrack.
 
Because you are monitoring through your DAW and not back through the board you can essentially just throw “traditional” out the window and route anyway that works for your needs.