fireberd
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**SOLVED** Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
I did a live recording and have the drum on two tracks. One for the bass drum and another overhead for the snare/cymbals. The bass drum track as recorded is poor and even if I up the track level it still sucks - thin and low level. I've got Studio One 3 Pro but have not really done anything with it. For learning I exported each of the tracks (8) from the live recording as 16 bit wav files (no VST's) and imported each one into Studio One 3. Amazingly the bass drum track sounds great. I haven't tried to reimport that track to Sonar to see how it sounds (next step) but just wowed me that it sounded so much better. The Overhead tracks sound improved too??? WTF I'm using the same MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid on both. UPDATE: I imported the same track back to Sonar. It still sounds the same as the original does in Sonar????
post edited by fireberd - 2018/04/08 15:19:44
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CTStump
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 13:51:43
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Mr.Evans are you out there? Can you please answer this question for the ten thousandth time?....
Sorry bout that but if one was to do a test you would find that there is no raw difference just how each host handles the audio for instance, Studio One may be using a console effect in the mixer and Cakewalk just sends the audio out in summed audio which may be what you "perceive" as a difference. Or dare I say you may need to "know" how each DAW works before you can make this subjecrive opinion.
Please search the forum and google for the term: Audio Null Test for discussions and debates on this subject.
Sorry for the lecture..
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bitflipper
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 14:19:46
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Phasing? I've noticed that on rare occasions SONAR would inexplicably invert the polarity on a track. Not noticeable on your typical mono track, but potentially disastrous on a multi-miked source such as drums.
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garry
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 14:28:40
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I was going to suggest phasing as well. FWIW, try exactly lining up the kick hits between the two tracks to account for the few feet of difference between the mics.
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CTStump
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 14:33:26
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bitflipper
Phasing? I've noticed that on rare occasions SONAR would inexplicably invert the polarity on a track. Not noticeable on your typical mono track, but potentially disastrous on a multi-miked source such as drums.
That's a real possibility bit, Studio One handles phase with a plugin where as Cakewalk has it on the mixer strip where that may be possible as an issue if it flips it with all those microphones used to record and the bass channel inadvertently switching either by an accidental click or gliitch causing the phase polarity to switch in Cakewalk. Good advice bit and if necessary my apologies for my recent reply and hopefully the OP finds the answer.
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fireberd
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 15:01:44
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What I've "sensed" so far is that the signal is louder in Studio One. How that happens??? I don't know enough about Studio One - this is the first time I've actually tried a real recording. However, when I export the Studio One it reports the signal is peaking +3db and clipping as its exporting it, but in Sonar the original signal is only peaking about -1db (I raised the level from the original recording that was about -12). I imported the track into Sonar and I can see that its clipping in spots. But the "raw" track in Studio One is not clipping.
I had other tracks (7 more) that I exported from Sonar and imported to Studio One. I don't "hear" a difference in those tracks (Bass, Lead Guitar, Pedal Steel and two Vocal tracks). Maybe just a fluke with the Bass drum track?
I'll have to experiment with a different song's Bass drum track. I've got some other "live show" recordings I did of our band last September. I recorded the drums the same way, an SM57 on the Bass drum and an overhead Ribbon for the rest of the drums.
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KPerry
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 15:08:50
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☄ Helpfulby MagicMike 2018/04/08 15:20:06
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fireberd
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 15:18:01
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I think I see what happened. I exported a different Bass drum track from Sonar and imported it to Studio One. Track sounded the same as the original Sonar track.
Looking at the track faders, the first track that I said sounded different (better) the fader is set at +6 and the second Bass drum track I imported is at 0db. I have no idea how the first one got to +6 but that seems to be what caused it to sound better "louder" and also probably why it was peaking and clipping on export.
I'll mark this solved.....
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mettelus
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 15:23:28
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No clue on this one, but it may also be processing done by S13 on inport. If it says "clipping" during inport, but the final inport is not clipped, then "something" happened. I have seen people refer to that clipping message in other posts but not seen it myself.... If someone exports (where I have seen it referenced) and gets that message but it still processes, S13 should either stop or rectify it, and seems that it might be fixing it. It would be worth testing, since clipping a 16 bit wav file will be noticeable.
The phasing you could check quick by soloing a track. If combined they sound weak, but exclusive solo makes it better, you may have phasing issues.
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fireberd
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 19:38:04
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I know almost zilch about Studio One 3. Although I bought it I haven't really done anything with it as Sonar does everything I need. But, I thought I should learn it and imported the tracks to play around with it. The other tracks are at 0 just the one track (and the track I noticed sounded better). Didn't matter if I played all the tracks or just soloed the one track it was the same so no phasing issue. Somehow the track level got boosted to +6db, whether it was something the program did or I did (unknowingly). I'll chalk this up to the learning experience.
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Anderton
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 19:48:47
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☄ Helpfulby olemon 2018/04/09 10:13:46
If you export a mono file from Sonar a a mono file, it will be boosted by 6 dB. If it was close to 0, there will be destructive clipping as a result. I destroyed an entire sample library I'd created when I "backed up" the files to three different media and then deleted the originals. When I brought the exported files back in to Sonar, they were all clipped because of the 6 dB boost.
If this is what happened to you, the solution when exporting is always to export as stereo. If you must export as mono, reduce the gain by 6 dB before exporting.
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marled
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 20:01:24
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6 dB really? I always thought it is only 3 dB!
It seems that I have understood something wrong! I have to check this!
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dappa1
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 20:42:36
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Fireberd,
I noticed the same thing, Studio One 3 just sounds better. I am not sure about cakewalk by BL I heard the Audio Engine sounds better now in cakewalk. Alas I have not downloaded it so I wouldn't know but going from SPLAT it has it's own sound. Which is noticeable.
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olakunleodebode
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 22:36:04
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dappa1
Fireberd,
I noticed the same thing, Studio One 3 just sounds better. I am not sure about cakewalk by BL I heard the Audio Engine sounds better now in cakewalk. Alas I have not downloaded it so I wouldn't know but going from SPLAT it has it's own sound. Which is noticeable.
Does Studio ONe 3 sound better than SPLAT?
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/08 23:20:44
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Under summing conditions only I would say no. In fact olakunleodebode started a thread saying the opposite. SPLAT sounded better! You are both wrong in my opinion. But once you start using internal stock plug-ins and things then all bets are off. Anything goes.
When Studio One exports a mono file there is no change in level from what I can see. Same with stereo file too. Also fireberd would not have engaged the console shaper either. You have to consciously make that decision. It is not something that you can stumble on accidentally that easily. The stock console shaper is only basic too in its operation. (CTC-1 is much nicer but a separate purchase)
One thing I found out too is that Studio One actually records 3 db lower than what the meters say as well. I think they do it to introduce some headroom. e.g. if you see a clip light during recording chances you did not clip at all.
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fireberd
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/09 10:22:19
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I've exported single (mono) tracks before - many times - and never noticed a signal gain. Sometimes I'll export a track so I can do some editing in Goldwave and then reimport it to Sonar. I don't see any signal gain, it remains the same.
In this Studio One example, all the tracks (8 tracks) were exported from Sonar as mono tracks and imported into Studio One. All the tracks except the one Bass Drum track were at 0db and didn't really sound any different. But because of the gain increase I noticed a (positive) difference in the sound of the Bass Drum track. How that happened is the "64 dollar question". I later also exported a Bass Drum track from an older session and it too was OK (0db).
Sonar/CbB is still my production DAW. Studio One 3 Pro is still a "learning experience". I've got several upcoming (paid client) recording sessions booked and they will all be done with Sonar.
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soens
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/10 10:15:12
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If you export a stereo clip as mono, then I can understand. From my experience I've always had to reduce gain on stereo clips when converting to mono within Sonar, so exporting may be similar. I can only guess this is because the conversion is combining the volume of the two channels into one channel.
Kind of like taking two glasses, each half full of water, and combining them to make one glass. Now one glass is at full volume while the other is empty.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/10 11:03:21
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soens
If you export a stereo clip as mono, then I can understand. From my experience I've always had to reduce gain on stereo clips when converting to mono within Sonar, so exporting may be similar. I can only guess this is because the conversion is combining the volume of the two channels into one channel.
Kind of like taking two glasses, each half full of water, and combining them to make one glass. Now one glass is at full volume while the other is empty.
iirc, the amount of gain change during conversion is affected by your pan law settings?
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fireberd
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Re: Sound differences between Splat and Studio One 3
2018/04/10 13:39:10
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In my case the tracks were mono and I exported as mono. No stereo involved.
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