SOLVED -- it's not a bug: "It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is...."

I'm still coping with a lot of annoying bugs in Sonar. The worse one, which is basically a show stopper for me is: with some VSTi's, simple instrument tracks get stuck on a certain patch, and I can't change it. If I try to change the patch, it reverts back to the stuck patch as soon as I press play. I used to think this was an issue with z3ta2.1, but now I have the same issue with Sylenth. 

I've attempted to engage Cakewalk tech support. About three months ago they asked me to send them a project that exhibited the issue. I did that and haven't heard back since. 

I've experienced this issue on two Windows 7 computers:

pentium i5, 4gb RAM
pentium i7, 12gb RAM

I'm using Sonar Studio -- X1d.

Cakewalk, please fix this!

There's nothing in the event list, and there's no patch change.

Here's a video that demonstrates the issue:
http://www.box.com/s/c4bafa091a6d3f24b361

There is no sound in this video. In it I open Sylenth and press play, and you can see the patch change. I also show how the problem does not happen if you put the now time before the start of the first note. 

You can see there are no strange events in the event viewer. Also, patch and bank are set to nothing.

I apologize, you'll have to download the video before watching it. I'm trying to get it onto Youtube, with no luck so far.

Thanks!

very strange behavior.. =/

you haven't, by accident, set another midi-track to the same midi-out and have a program change on this track?

I really love sonar X1. So intuitive most of the time. But there are two extremely annoying bugs that seem to show up only in 64 bit. 32 bit seems to avoid both of these. Both are show stoppers and force a program restart. If they are really in a bad mood, I have to restart windows. First this appears to happen when there are lots of other tracks, and perhaps several clips within a track I am working on. When I go to create a v-vocal clip, it starts to process, then dumps to a white screen. Then I am sunk. I've noticed that once this starts happening, I simply can not create v-vocal clips within that track any more. (My work around is to create the v-vocal clips in the 32 bit program, then reload to the 64 bit. I can freely open any existing v-vocal clip. I've tried shutting off all the effects. I've never been able to get a "cause and effect" out of it. It simply happens when things get complicated enough. (I am on Windows 7 ultimate, 16gig ram and plenty of hard drive, and my machine has always been rock steady reliable.) The 2nd issue is that sometimes when I am editing, I will move one or more clips while Sonar is playing. I know its probably bad practice, but most of the time I can get away with it. But when it involves an existing v-vocal clip (and only on the 64 bit sonar), sometimes, on rare occasions, I hear teh audio engine grind to a halt. Then all I hear is a grating noise. When this happens, its reboot time. Both of these issues put a halt on what is otherwise normally a smooth workflow experience. I am using X1d, but this issue has tracked along since I first installed sonar producer last summer. Those are my most annoying bugs. Rick

I had a problem like that with a midi file I downloaded, every time I changed the patch it resorted back the the original.

I think I ended up copying each midi clip (there were several in the midi file) into new tracks and that worked for me.

Freex


I had a problem like that with a midi file I downloaded, every time I changed the patch it resorted back the the original.

I think I ended up copying each midi clip (there were several in the midi file) into new tracks and that worked for me.

That's pretty much my scenario. I'm using a midi file that I downloaded, and the problem happens when I copy and paste from that midi into an instrument track. I'll try your solution.


Thanks.

Maybe the phrase "bug in Sonar X1d" in your title is misleading... 

musicroom


Maybe the phrase "bug in Sonar X1d" in your title is misleading... 

Calling it a feature would definitely be misleading. It's a bug. I should be able to copy & paste midi from one track to another without having strange side effects. The apparent extra info that I'm copying & pasting is completely hidden from me. I don't know how to strip it out. This hidden info (whatever it is) forces my synth to a certain patch despite my attempts to choose a patch. It's a bug!

mleghorn

musicroom


Maybe the phrase "bug in Sonar X1d" in your title is misleading... 

Calling it a feature would definitely be misleading. It's a bug. I should be able to copy & paste midi from one track to another without having strange side effects. The apparent extra info that I'm copying & pasting is completely hidden from me. I don't know how to strip it out. This hidden info (whatever it is) forces my synth to a certain patch despite my attempts to choose a patch. It's a bug!

Where can I download this internet file you're working with that is causing all this havoc? It may be a bug. 


Do you have another daw that reads / loads midi files that you can test this out on? 

In my case it was a created MIDI track by me.

mleghorn

musicroom


Maybe the phrase "bug in Sonar X1d" in your title is misleading... 

Calling it a feature would definitely be misleading. It's a bug. I should be able to copy & paste midi from one track to another without having strange side effects. The apparent extra info that I'm copying & pasting is completely hidden from me. I don't know how to strip it out. This hidden info (whatever it is) forces my synth to a certain patch despite my attempts to choose a patch. It's a bug!

I doubt what you're experiencing is actually a bug at all.
 
Can you provide us the source MIDI or project file ?.
 
If you can provide the MIDI file, or point us to where we can download it, we can try and duplicate the behavior, and therefore troubleshoot it.
 
 
I have seen behavior like this before on numerous occassions, and in my experience it has never been due to a bug at all.
I suspect the cause is most likely the content of the MIDI file, and/or settings in your global or project preferences.
 
 
Let us know if we can take a look for you.
 
 
Cheers - Cliff

This looks like a pretty good overview of the MIDI file format: http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/midifiles.html
 
It includes Program Change Events, Controller Events, Instrument Name, SysEx Events, etc. 
Maybe there's something in there...

I'm away from my DAW -- on a business trip. When I get back I'll try out everyone's suggestions.

One more argument that this is a bug: I've only observed this behavior with z3ta2.1 and Sylenth. It doesn't happen with any of the U-He synths. Perhaps it has to do with how patch change commands vary among synths.

Dave_Ro


Like John...I have had this problem before...even back in 8.5.3. The only way I corrected it was to insert a manual program change at the beginning of the track to correct it. - I too never found root cause!!!

I tried inserting a manual bank / program change at the beginning and that didn't fix the problem. Are there different ways to to this, depending on the soft synth?