SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion

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Relic1882
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2010/05/11 20:17:09 (permalink)

SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion

Ok, I know that this has been posted before but I'm having trouble figuring this out. I know I should have a seperate hard drive for my audio, but this isn't an option for me right now.
 
 
The problem is that I'm getting fuzzy distorion on my audio playback. Sometimes it happens after a minute or two, sometimes it takes over a half hour into the playback for it to start. Sometimes it doesn't do it at all! I'm having trouble narrowing this down. I have turned off disk defragging programs, antivirus, firewalls, internet altogether and started up with bare minimum apps running. I have changed absolutely NOTHING on my system and it only started doing this recently. My ASIO latency is all the way up. I've tried adjusting the cache settings, changed driver sharing options, made sure that multicore threading was tweaked.
 
My biggest concern is that this has only started happening within the last couple weeks. Before that it ran perfect all the time. I could record for well over an hour and still have it work great. Please help! I'm dying here! haha!
 
Below is the file sample of my issue. You'll hear the crackling distortion about 9 seconds into it. This clip was taken from 32 minutes into our practice session. It always starts doing it randomly. Once it starts, it doesn'g go away for the rest of the recording.
 
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9131412
 
I'm running this:
 
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
 
AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE 3.4Ghz.
4 Gigs Crucial 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM
Palit Nvidia GTS 250 1 Gig GDDR3
M-Audio 1010LT Recording with all 8 inputs at once at 44Khz/16bit
 
There is a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi in the system too that has ALWAYS been there, but I only have ASIO M-Audio drivers running for any audio recording. The only thing the X-Fi is tied to is for games. I've tried to disable it but the problem still persists.

AMD Phenom II 965 Black Edition 3.4Ghz
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M-Audio 1010LT
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#1

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/11 21:06:41 (permalink)
    Its sound card driver related. what exactly have you changed and tried? And what is it set to now?
    I hope your not using your SB X-FI card. That card is great for video games and thats about it.
    Your also not the 1st one to have this kind of problem with audio and win7 64bit drivers, if thats the sound card your using!
    Cj

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    #2
    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 02:12:59 (permalink)
    Post removed after more consideration...
    post edited by papa2005 - 2010/05/12 02:15:03

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

    CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials...
     
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    #3
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 02:31:47 (permalink)
    Just to make sure:

    The distortion occurs only during actual playback of a file, not when when playback is paused, when you're adjusting settings etc?

    I was thinking about eliminating a physical flaw, a bad plug or so..

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
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    #4
    edentowers
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 02:58:03 (permalink)
    The last driver update from M-Audio was 6.0.2_5.10.0.5074 back in Nov 2009. I wonder whether some Win 7 automatic update has had a strange affect - do you have automatic updates ON?

    If this only happened a couple of weeks ago set a Restore Point to today and then restore back to some time when you knew things were OK.

    You shouldn't have any problem with the Soundblaster left on all the time. Just make sure that you have it unchecked in Sonar.

    I don't have a separate drive for audio, it's definitely not a necessity.

    Phil

    S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
    #5
    edentowers
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 03:00:19 (permalink)
    Hey Kalle,
    if we're having the coldest May in 15 years I presume you're not getting it any better up in the land of the Arctic Circle.

    S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
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    Relic1882
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 19:03:50 (permalink)
    The sound card driver is set at 44.1 and the buffer is at 4096. I keep it high because I thought it had better stability. Latency is not my concern because I don't need to monitor what records through Sonar as I go. The M-Audio 0 latency direct monitoring out to my headphone mixer is perfectly fine.
     
    My Sound Blaster is not being used at all in Sonar. I'm running ASIO mode using M-Audio.
     
    I don't see how it's a sound card driver issue because I've been using the same up to date M-Audio drivers since I built the computer back in January.
     
    Windows Update is set to have me check it before anything installs. There haven't been any new driver installs since my before problem started. Only the usual security fixes Windows blows out every other day.
     
    I can't system restore because I have it turned off. I know it's dumb to do that but I always had a weird issue when I try to restore. It won't work so I just turned it off to save the space.
     
    I posted some screen shots of my driver settings and Sonar settings.
     
    http://i43.tinypic.com/el36zo.jpg
    http://i39.tinypic.com/ncnpc1.jpg
    http://i39.tinypic.com/dytwrq.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/2eqch3p.jpg
    http://i42.tinypic.com/1zztfgx.jpg
     
    Thanks for the help so far!!!!
     
     
     

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    #7
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 19:49:09 (permalink)

    and the buffer is at 4096.
    Thats way way way too high. yuor ASIO buffer shoulf be between 64 and 512. Maybe 1024. Lower that ASIO buffer
    Cj

     I don't see how it's a sound card driver issue because I've been using the same up to date M-Audio drivers since I built the computer back in January.

     
    It is a driver issue. All projects are different and with a ASIO buffer of 4096, i can say with 99.9998999899% truth that its a sound card driver issue
     
    post edited by CJaysMusic - 2010/05/12 19:51:03

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    Aruun
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/12 23:24:59 (permalink)
    So what would you suggest? I'm having essentially the exact same problem with a really similar setup. I'm using the ASIO drivers that came with my EMU 0404 USB Audio Interface. But my latency is set at 523. So are my drivers just not working with x64 Win7? They're fully updated. Are there some kind of generic drivers I can use or something?
    #9
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 00:17:31 (permalink)

    So what would you suggest?
    What I said in the post before. 523 msec latency is way way way too high. It need to be between 1.2mb sec and 20 secs.
    Just lower it. All it is, is a driver config issue.
    This applies if your not using an onboard sound card. you should be using a recommended sound card. If your not, then maybe nothing will help you
    Cj
    post edited by CJaysMusic - 2010/05/13 00:19:13

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 03:44:03 (permalink)
    All these problems being reported by users who keep talking about "buffer sizes"...I hope they understand that there are several different types of buffers...

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    #11
    Relic1882
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 13:24:46 (permalink)
    I've lowered my ASIO buffer size to 1024 samples. I'll see what happens. If there are any other suggestions that I'm not being told of, someone please help! haha! Also, if someone knows how buffers technically work and why certain settings are better than others for my 1010LT, please enlighten me with the technical mumbo jumbo. I'd like to know for my own sake. Thanks!
     

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    #12
    VinylJunkie
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 14:05:22 (permalink)
    523 msec latency is way way way too high.


    It doesn't say that measurement is in milliseconds.  As he's using ASIO he is probably referring to the reported latency measured in number of samples


    It need to be between 1.2mb sec and 20 secs










    VJ
    #13
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 14:12:17 (permalink)
    He stated before his ASIO buffer was at 4096.....523 is not a buffer setting
    523 isnt a normal ASIO buffer setting. ASIO buffer settings are predetermined. 523 is not one of those predetermined numbers... They go in 32,64,128,192,256,512 and so on 523 is an odd number

    His high latency goes with his horrible playback. It fits his situation
    Cj

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 15:00:05 (permalink)
    Actually, a higher latency sample buffer should result in a smoother playback for mixing, mastering or just listening...Obviously, it's not conducive for recording but I don't think it has any bearing on the problems the OP is having.

    I listened to the clip. He's got some distortion/overdrive clipping of a sort somewhere in the signal chain. Perhaps it's a "cooling" issue with his soundcard beginning to overheat after a certain length of time. Could be a problem with his mic preamp. But it's not related to latency buffers (unless his computer is completely different than any computer I've ever seen or used)...

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 15:11:57 (permalink)
    Actually, a higher latency sample buffer should result in a smoother playback for mixing, mastering or just listening

    Agreed. That's normal procedure. But not with a latency of 532 or an ASIO buffer of 4096. to high of a setting is not good. Just like if you have your settings too low your playback can get messed up. The same goes for when its set to high.
     
    There is a huge difference between 20ms (a high settings) and 532ms (too high of a setting) or an aSIO buffer of 1024 (a high settings) and an ASIO buffer of 4096 (too high of a setting)
     
    No one here is arguing high buffers are not good. The issue is that there too high
    Cj

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 15:13:30 (permalink)
    CJ,

    Have you listened to the clip?

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 15:24:04 (permalink)
    Yea, it clipping to holly high hell. It doesnt change the facts of what I said about having your latency set to high. Try settign your MS to 532 and youll get bad playback.

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 15:41:04 (permalink)
    Okay, for s**s & grins, I just loaded a project (two instances of SD2, two NI Elektrik pianos, two acoustic pianos, a bass, two acoustic guitars, two electric guitars, two instances of EWQLSO, and a lead vocal track) after resetting my M-Audio latency sample buffers to 4096...It plays fine...

    What the OP is experiencing is some sort of audio distortion...

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 16:03:37 (permalink)

    What the OP is experiencing is some sort of audio distortion...
    I know that.
     
    I just set a 60 track project with a latency of 356msec and it played back with artifacts. I lowered it to 20ms and it played back fine! what changed it this scenario?? Latency!!
     
    Having too high of a latency setting can cause bad playback. Just like having to low of latency.
    Cj 
     

    buffers to 4096

    It wasnt high enough. what was your repeorted latency at?? at 4096, it probalby wasnt over 100msec. Try using 532 or 300msecs
    Cj
    post edited by CJaysMusic - 2010/05/13 16:06:02

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 16:14:13 (permalink)
    Roundtrip latency reported at 172.1 msec...

    My AP192 won't go above 4096 latency sample buffers...I still contend, after listening to the clip, there's audio distortion somewhere in his signal chain...That's not the kind of noise one hears with latency buffer settings...

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 16:48:49 (permalink)
    Roundtrip latency reported at 172.1 msec...

    so your input latency is around 65msec or so. Try 300 msecs like ive been saying. That would probaly have a rountrip of 630 msec and higher. damn that high.
    With WDm you should be able to break the 200 msec mark.

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    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 16:55:04 (permalink)
    CJ,

    With all due respect to your supreme post count and knowledge of all things SONAR related, I've been doing this stuff for over 40 years and what I heard in the clip posted is audio distortion...Not digital artifacts...

    Regards,
    Papa

    CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5

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    VinylJunkie
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 16:55:15 (permalink)
    He stated before his ASIO buffer was at 4096.....523 is not a buffer setting


    No he didn't.

    Relic1882 said he used a buffer set at 4096.

    A different user Aruun mentioned latency of 523. Which I still think is a reference to the number of samples in the ASIO reported latency box -

    However it would be nice if the poster could clarify precisely what he's referring to.

    VJ
    #24
    Relic1882
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 18:50:02 (permalink)
    Ok. I've checked my cables. I can't find anything strange. I don't see how it could be a cable anyway because this fuzz noise happens on ALL of the tracks whenever it decides to do it.  I've tried a bunch of different drivers, whether it be for windows 7, xp or vista, compatibility modes, etc. I've tried changing ASIO buffer sizes from 64 to 4096. I've tried setting the record bitrate and frequency different. I have also changed all my power management in BIOS and Windows to be on all the time.
     
    I have uploaded a new copy of the problem here---> http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9140084 
    Pardon the language at the end. This is getting on my nerves!
    It seems that it comes in around 13 seconds, but then it gets worse and worse, and then all of a sudden it goes completely away at 1:03. Then it comes back again 10 seconds or so later. What the hell?!
     
    I really don't want to throw my computer through the basement wall because I just built it this year. But I'm running out of ideas! haha. I have seen this problem on other sites and forums as well. It happens to a lot of people but it always gets left behind unsolved. I am determined to figure this out!!
     
    Thank you very much again to anyone who is helping work on this. You have no idea how much it means to me!
    post edited by Relic1882 - 2010/05/13 18:56:23

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    #25
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 18:54:46 (permalink)
    It sounds like its clipping. The louder you hit the drums, the worse it gets. Here are some gain staging tips
    http://audio-mastering-mixing.com/FAQ___Q_A_Page_2.html#42

    What do your meters read for the tracks, buses, master bus and main outs?? Cause it sure sounds like your clipping your signal
    Cj




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    #26
    Relic1882
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 19:01:21 (permalink)
    It's not clipping because I'm hammering away towards the end and that's when it goes away completely for a short time. I'm not peaking at any point in my signal chain either.

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    #27
    papa2005
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 19:09:14 (permalink)
    I just reread your OP...Why are you recording at 16-bits? (And please, get rid of the SoundBlaster or buy a new system designed for gaming)...

    Regards,
    Papa

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    #28
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 19:15:51 (permalink)
    It's not clipping because I'm hammering away towards the end and that's when it goes away completely for a short time. I'm not peaking at any point in my signal chain either.

    I have to ask again!
    What are your meter readings for the tracks, bus's master bus and main outs.
     
    And for heaven sake, you dont have any wireless, web cams or networking enabled in you pc. Even a wireless card that is disabled in the device manager can cause problems.
    Cj
     

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    #29
    Relic1882
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    Re:SONAR 8.5 Fuzzy distortion 2010/05/13 19:20:24 (permalink)
    I was recording at 16 bits to try to check the issue. I'm set at 24 bit again. That's what the newer sample file is recorded at. 96khz/24 bit.    
     
    I can't afford to build a new pc just for gaming. Besides, I don't game often enough any more. This problem shouldn't have anything to do with the Sound Blaster because it has always been installed in the PCs I've had for the past few years.

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    4 GB Crucial 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM
    Palit Geforce GTS 250 1GB
    M-Audio 1010LT
    Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatality Xtreme Gamer

    My band's music: 

    www.myspace.com/bandrelic





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