Teal
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SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
I am slaving Sonar to an external DP24. To get this to work, I set the clock source as MMC. Works fine until I use the transport controls on sonar and then MMC is broken. I go into clock source to find it has been reverted to "audio". Can someone explain this behavior, or is it a bug?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/19 10:33:23
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Aren't you supposed to use the transport controls on your master device?
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Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/19 12:18:59
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Hi Teal, In order for MIDI Machine Control to activate the DP24, MIDI connections must be made (MIDI i/o to an interface). Make sure it is set to MMC slave in the MIDI remote control menu. If you have a device ID set to something other than "All" make sure that device ID matches Sonar's MMC device ID setting in Preferences - Project - MIDI. (If you do not have other devices connected that respond to MMC, just use the "All" setting on the DP24 for the MMC slave ID.) In Sonar, open Preferences - Audio - Sync and Caching (Advanced) and set to "Full Chase Lock", "Do not Switch Clock Source, but Start if in SMPTE/MTC mode", and "Maintain Current Clock source and wait for timecode." In Preferences - Project - Clock set it to SMPTE/MTC (or in the Control Bar Sync module). With these settings, Sonar should send out MMC command to start to the DP24 at the now time's current location. The DP24 should then send out MTC and start Sonar's transport. I suspect you have "Switch Current Clock source and Start Playback" set in Preferences - Audio - Sync and Caching (Advanced). This automatically switches the clock to an Audio sync when pressing play in Sonar.
Thanks! Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]
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Teal
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 21:28:47
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Daniel, Thank you very much! But I actually want to slave Sonar to the DP24. It is working for the most part; I can use the DP24 transport controls and sonar will follow the transport. It even works with looping set in the dp24. I will try your settings but I don't believe the dp24 can act as slave. The desired setup is to use SONAR as a midi workstation appended to the portastudio. Instrument outputs will be set individually in SONAR and routed to inputs in the DP24, thus I will have hardware and fader control over the mix. Programming and midi handled in sonar. Essentially using the DAW as a glorified drum machine. The plan is/was to set up a template in the DAW with Kontakt, Maschine, and EZDrummer each with their own stereo pairs routed out to inputs on the DP-24. All of the analog tracking would be handled in the dp-24, and I would be using the dp-24 transport and faders for the mix. Kinda retro, I suppose, but I have my reasons.
post edited by Teal - 2014/06/20 22:04:29
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:03:50
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I have sometimes used Sonar with my Tascam 2488 and midi MTC - Midi Sync. I usually use it to expand my track count while taping a concert. For me, it works best to just use SPIDF to sync the clocks - skipping the midi sync. I usually set the Tascam 2488 as slave to my RME device. It works pretty well. I think sampling is tighter this way then with Midi Sync. For me, I just start both devices... record a snare hit that I use to light up the tracks after importing the data to Sonar from the Tascam... and let it roll. This is a very cheap way to take my track count to 16 without even using the ADAT input on the RME. Edit: Haha - just looked - DP24 is just the new version of my old Tascam 2488
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Teal
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:10:03
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gswitz I have sometimes used Sonar with my Tascam 2488 and midi MTC - Midi Sync. I usually use it to expand my track count while taping a concert. For me, it works best to just use SPIDF to sync the clocks - skipping the midi sync. I usually set the Tascam 2488 as slave to my RME device. It works pretty well. I think sampling is tighter this way then with Midi Sync. For me, I just start both devices... record a snare hit that I use to light up the tracks after importing the data to Sonar from the Tascam... and let it roll. This is a very cheap way to take my track count to 16 without even using the ADAT input on the RME. Edit: Haha - just looked - DP24 is just the new version of my old Tascam 2488
Unfortunately, they did not give it any digital I/O! On a positive note, it sounds better than it has a right to with whatever cheap ADCs they are using. But instruments interface directly with the UFX before being sent to the DP-24, so that may have something to do with the quality.
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:12:47
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Teal Unfortunately, they did not give it any digital I/O!
Well I'll be! They stole your SPIDF plugs! Bastards!! ha! Oh well. Guess Midi Sync it is then.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:18:18
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Back in like 2005 or so, I did successfully make the Tascam 2488 the Midi Sync Slave of Cakewalk. I was also able to control the faders in the device from Sonar, so I could write fader automation. In the 2488 it had like, jump/catch settings for the faders. The faders were not motorized so it was a bit confusing. Also, I was able to use it as a control surface for Sonar. So, I could plug it in via midi and move the sliders on the interface to write automation in Cakewalk. I pretty much never used it this way. I'm too lazy. I picked up a AlphaTrack single track device as an external controller which is nice and small - with a motorized fader. I also got a touch screen which works better than any controller I've used.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:21:01
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BTW, you're smart to know you have to clock sync the devices or you'll get crazy distortion when you bring all the tracks together. You're on the right track. I don't see a way to sync the devices short of Midi.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:23:56
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Not meaning to spam you... I remember having to hit Play+Record on the Tascam to set it 'wait' mode to listen for Midi MMC messages from Sonar. If I didn't do this, it wouldn't suddenly start recording. Tracks have to be armed and you have to put it in Play+Record. It doesn't start recording until it gets the message at which point it suddenly jumps to the point in time that matches the Sonar Project. There is a lag for it to start. (seconds).
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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konradh
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:45:48
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I don't do this anymore, but in the past I have been able to sync Sonar to my Roland VS1680 and have been able to make either the VS1680 or Sonar the master. My point is that Sonar is capable of this, but I don't know your hardware and there are a lot of variables. I will say that it too me several tries to get the settings right both in Sonar and in the external device. In case anyone is interested, I was syncing so I could import tracks from the VS1680.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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Teal
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/20 22:50:31
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konradh I don't do this anymore, but in the past I have been able to sync Sonar to my Roland VS1680 and have been able to make either the VS1680 or Sonar the master. My point is that Sonar is capable of this, but I don't know your hardware and there are a lot of variables. I will say that it too me several tries to get the settings right both in Sonar and in the external device. In case anyone is interested, I was syncing so I could import tracks from the VS1680.
Thanks. The DP-24 has .wav export over usb, so it wouldnt be for that. I just want to use the DAW as a sampler linked to a hardware workflow.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/21 00:06:53
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I typed "TASCAM DP24 Manual" into Google and found out the DP24 uses MIDI Time Code and MIDI clock for temporal sync. The bit-map array of MMC commands in the manual has the MTC and Generator commands crossed out. So to answer your original question "Why?!?," your assumption Sonar is "broken" is based on your not understanding how the DP24 works. When I typed "slave SONAR via MIDI," the #1 link took me to the appropriate page in Sonar's documentation, which also includes links to "Sonar as the slave," "Sonar as the master," "Using MIDI sync with drum machines," and "Troubleshooting MIDI sync." These resources should help you get things working.
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Cactus Music
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/21 00:16:20
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Yep did this with my Yamaha MD8 years ago after my Atari finally died and was forced to go PC for MIDI. Note my joined the forum date, If you dig up my first post I think that was my question! It was the Guitar Studio forum which I don't see anymore. Funny how simple it was with the atari, KCS just has a simple "midi sync" in the transport. Anyhow it does work , at least it did work with older versions of Cakewalk, and both ways. But Sonar needs a lot of TLC before it goes, unlike the Atari did. PC always sucked at MIDI...
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Teal
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/21 08:02:31
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Anderton, You'll have to forgive me, I am coming from a DAW with no online documentation and a private user forum. Questions were answered by other users or by videos posted by other users. Turn around time on queries to tech support usually took a week, so essentially useless. Apparently you think you are the sherrif in these parts. I understand you are employed by Gibson now; I think you should be concerned with your online presence and professionalism instead of starting a pissing match with an anonymous new user. Companies tend to frown upon aggressive online behavior from their employees. I know you probably see it as "pro Sonar" and defending the software from perceived slights, but I doubt your manager would see it that way.
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backwoods
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Re: SONAR X3 MMC, clock source always reverting to "Audio", why!?!?
2014/06/21 08:52:15
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