chuckebaby
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/12 21:57:50
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Anderton
chuckebaby
EDIT: I see you want nothing selected in the timeline when you make a timeline selection.
Im not sure I remember it ever working that way.
Whether nothing is selected or all is selected, the functionality is the same...you click on the track(s) you want the region to affect.
You don't need to convince me, I don't see any wasted clicks. 1- you make a timeline selection2- you click on a track/tracks.jbraner
The point it - this new behaviour just appeared a couple of months ago, and caught a lot of us by surprise.
Has anyone rolled back to check if it was different a few months ago or are people just guessing saying "I cant remember when this changed" ? Because I don't ever recall it being different (I don't think it has changed). It is possible its just the way I work and maybe I missed it but im not sure. It will help, I will roll back 6 months ago and check if the behavior is different (unless someone already did and I missed that post).
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couch
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 04:49:04
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Selecting in the timeline never used to select all for me before the last
update or two.
I much prefer it the old way myself.
As it is now every time I make a selection in the timeline I have to go to
unselect all to make sure I know what's what.
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jbraner
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 08:31:16
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couch
Selecting in the timeline never used to select all for me before the last
update or two.
I much prefer it the old way myself.
As it is now every time I make a selection in the timeline I have to go to
unselect all to make sure I know what's what.
This!! The behaviour has definitely changed. I dare say that it's not the biggest problem we'll face this week, and that we can learn to live with the new way - but in the meantime it *is* off-putting (is that actually a word?) I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that most of us do *not* normally want to select everything. Hell, we'd just hit ctrl-A if we did...
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 13:30:46
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Use ripple editing for a while, and see if you like the tradeoff. I'm not saying you will, but often once I get used to something, that gets integrated into my workflow and I wouldn't want to go back to the way things were.
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stratman70
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 15:08:36
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I guess I never noticed for 2 reasons:
When I select time using the timeline I either:
1. Have already selected the track I am focusing on. or
2. I select the track I want focus on "after" I select using timeline, which deselects all the other tracks.
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jbraner
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 15:09:56
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Maybe next time there is a shakeup like this - they can mention it in the update notes (and e-zine etc)
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BRainbow
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/13 23:14:23
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Yes, this new feature has screwed me up a number of times, even if I am not trying to loop. I zoom in on an audio track i want to edit (slice, delete, create an envelope etc.) and, unbeknownst to me all the other non-zoomed (and invisible to me) tracks are also selected so the edit occurs on ALL OF THEM. Often this happens withoput my realizing it until several saves down the line and I have lost some important clip sections as a result.
I've been meaning to post my irritation but whats the use . . .
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kellerpj
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 00:59:16
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2017/09/14 15:55:53
Anderton:
I appreciate you have your preferences and workflows, but I don't use ripple editing very much in my workflows. In fact, up until recently, nobody used ripple editing because it didn't exist.
Read on to see how this "functional change" to making time span selections on the time line has affected my workflows:
My workflows support recording performances, not building songs. I typically record practice sessions for artists; one long SONAR session for each practice session. So each session will have typically 6 to 10 song takes strung out across the same set of tracks delimited by markers I put in during the session. I then take these session recordings back to my home studio and mix and engineer them to produce rough mixes for the artists to use for practicing. Each song is exported separately using a tailored rough mix.
I use a laptop for all this work (it's a mobile studio) and I can't fit all the tracks on the display. So, I don't like having any unnecessary tracks selected when working and navigating in these projects. As such it is not unusual for me to have no tracks selected when I, for example, select a time range between two markers. When I do that now, ALL tracks get selected and I have to unselect them. So now, something as simple as selecting a time span in the time ruler so I can set loop points to analyze a region of the material causes me to unselect the unnecessary tracks that are selected. (More clicks for my workflow, not less.)
I also use the "Jog" function to find the very beginning and very end of the song with the mouse on the time line and the Selection Control Bar Module to select a time span. This, thankfully, does NOT select all tracks when there are no tracks selected. However, that seems (to me) to be inconsistent behavior.
Furthermore, I've found that (remember, I don't like having tracks unnecessarily selected in my projects) when I extend an already existing selection (SHIFT-Click on the time line), with no tracks selected, all tracks are not selected. Again, inconsistent. However, (and this is really bad), the track that had FOCUS now becomes unexpectedly selected! This can really mess me up if the track that has focus is not on my screen. (More clicks for my workflow, not less.)
And to make things even worse, if I DO have a track selected with the FOCUS on a different track than the one that is selected, and I extend (SHIFT-Click on the time line) an already existing time span, SONAR unexpectedly selects the track that had FOCUS leaving the pre-selected track selected also. Again, this can really mess me up if the track that has focus is not on my screen. (More clicks for my workflow, not less.)
The upshot is, none of these inconsistent behaviors existed previous to the functional changes to making a selection on the time line. For my workflow preferences, it also causes more work and a potential for more unintentional modifications in my project.
Again, my preference is that selecting a time span on the time ruler should only select time, never tracks.
Paul
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 05:56:00
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chuckebaby
Anderton
chuckebaby
EDIT: I see you want nothing selected in the timeline when you make a timeline selection.
Im not sure I remember it ever working that way.
Whether nothing is selected or all is selected, the functionality is the same...you click on the track(s) you want the region to affect.
You don't need to convince me, I don't see any wasted clicks.
1- you make a timeline selection
2- you click on a track/tracks.
read below. this should explain how a huge number of clicks are now needed / wasted chuckebaby
jbraner
The point it - this new behaviour just appeared a couple of months ago, and caught a lot of us by surprise.
Has anyone rolled back to check if it was different a few months ago or are people just guessing saying "I cant remember when this changed" ?
Because I don't ever recall it being different (I don't think it has changed).
It is possible its just the way I work and maybe I missed it but im not sure.
It will help, I will roll back 6 months ago and check if the behavior is different (unless someone already did and I missed that post).
I did rollback but only to 2017.06 and it is unfortunately just as bad there. I tried some more and here is what I consider real show stoppers for editing. - Select volume take lane of track 6 and track 8. Now pick your selection in the time line and your previous take lane selection is discarded (which strangely does not happen when you have full tracks and not just the take lanes selected => inconsistency / bug).
- Doing it the opposite way i.e. selecting on the time line, then volume take lane of track 6 and track 8 works BUT (and this is a BIG BUT), it immediately discards your selection after the edit (nothing selected anymore) which means you cannot simply adjust your previous adjustment until you find the proper level and - just as bad - you cannot go to the timeline and make your selection for the next section. Practical example: try bringing down back vox tracks in each chorus. used to be super easy. select take lanes, make time range selection, pull down while listening, if gone too far adjust vertical drag, go to to timeline click next chorus ... not it is a click orgy deluxe (!!!)
- What also occurred (several times yet hard to reproduce) is that some of the take lanes which got auto-selected by time range selection stayed active even though manually deselected (selection highlight indicator turned off) i.e. when adjusting volume take lanes, panning was also adjusted due to being active in the background but not visually indicated.
IMHO a fairly broken state which needs an urgent and thorough fix! I'm sure that previous versions of Sonar did NOT work like that. I did a few tests rolling back and forth between 2017.06, 07 and 08 but unfortunately even 06 has the same issues so I cannot just rollback to 2 months. I would have to roll back further, which means losing and possibly compatibility / breaking currently running projects.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 06:02:38
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kellerpj
The upshot is, none of these inconsistent behaviors existed previous to the functional changes to making a selection on the time line. For my workflow preferences, it also causes more work and a potential for more unintentional modifications in my project.
Again, my preference is that selecting a time span on the time ruler should only select time, never tracks.
Paul
Well said, Paul! And I agree very much with your situation. I would like to add to that whatever you select in the time line should not (or must not) change or reset the previous selection you had. Major source of unnecessary clicks, potential errors and waster time. To me it looks like a feature that was introduced to help the creative process, introduces a lot of headache for those who need to mix big sessions.
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chuckebaby
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 12:01:43
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If it helps any I rolled back to 2017.05 (the earliest one I have saved)and saw the same behavior.
So we are talking about a minimum of 4 months of this being like this. just curious why its coming to a head now.
I respect everyone's opinion. So im not going to be that guy that says "Work a different way"
We all work in different ways so it is impossible to suggest what is good for some and what is good for others.
Im not here to dog, im here to help and if I cant help, I will politely bow out of this thread.
We'll see, maybe Cakewalk will take note and make a change. Either way, it really doesnt effect my way of working.
I do a lot of my selection on the clips themselves. that includes; Click+drag multiple clips, Lasso and yes, even timeline selection.
Hope it all works out for everyone.
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jbraner
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 12:29:01
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/09/14 12:33:16
chuckebaby
If it helps any I rolled back to 2017.05 (the earliest one I have saved)and saw the same behavior.
So we are talking about a minimum of 4 months of this being like this. just curious why its coming to a head now.
Hi Chuck, I just "grinned and bared it" (how do you say "grin and bear it" in the past tense?) and finally posted it - just to see what anyone else said. It seems I'm not alone though...
I respect everyone's opinion. So im not going to be that guy that says "Work a different way"
Well, I think it's clear that we will have to change a little. There are definitely far bigger things to worry about in the world - but it *is* worth mentioning. We'll see if anything changes (back to how it was...)
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 15:30:56
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kellerpj
Anderton:
I appreciate you have your preferences and workflows, but I don't use ripple editing very much in my workflows. In fact, up until recently, nobody used ripple editing because it didn't exist.
Read on to see how this "functional change" to making time span selections on the time line has affected my workflows... Thank you for the detailed explanation, I can definitely see how this affects your way of doing things. I don't have a solution but it seems one option that might help is to select a track, any track, and give it the focus before doing dragging in the timeline or doing a shift+click in the timeline. I realize for you that would be an unnecessary step, but it might save you more unnecessary steps. TBH these changes have not affected what I need to do, and they've actually made it easier in some respects. But the way it was before was fine too, so it wouldn't matter to me if it went back to the way it was. Probably what needs to be done is to create a document that shows expected result vs. actual result for various operations, and pass that along to the Bakers. Ripple Editing was a major change, and it's very likely to have created some side effects that weren't anticipated. But if those didn't show up in the workflow of the person doing the testing, they wouldn't be noticed.
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mettelus
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 16:10:12
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It seems that much of this boils down to the user driving the software, and not vice versa. Software shouldn't assign/change anything a user didn't specifically choose/change. In the delete hole discussions prior to Ripple Editing, that was also the rub... SONAR deselected tracks without data in them. Now, it seems it is swayed to the other extreme.
It can be thought of as simply as an X/Y grid... the user sets values/selections for each which does not alter the other in any way, regardless of order. When a function is called that gets an exception, a warning dialog should ensue.
What spins up pretty much everyone is when they take the time to make a selection, that should be how the selection persists, until changed again by the user. No one appreciates that type of surprise, especially if they find out about it 20 operations later.
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mettelus
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 16:10:18
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jbraner
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 16:16:02
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What spins up pretty much everyone is when they take the time to make a selection, that should be how the selection persists, until changed again by the user. Except in this case - where we select nothing, choose some measures in the timeline, and want it to continue selecting no tracks - until we tell it which ones we want ;-) No one appreciates that type of surprise, especially if they find out about it 20 operations later. Precisely...
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Joe_A
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 16:22:13
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Anderton
jbraner
I've noticed that since at least 2017.07, that whenever you do something like set loop points, or various things - that all your tracks get selected.
Anyone else notice this?
It's really annoying. If I select a track, then do something - that doesn't mean I now want to select all tracks :-\
This catches me out a lot, especially when I ctrl-drag a clip - and realise that a bunch of other ones are selected too!
If you select loop points dragging across the timeline, it selects all.
If you select loop points dragging across a track, it selects only that track.
I may not be reading correctly but this has been the way for a good while?
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 17:27:50
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I checked Ipswich and if you dragged across the timeline, it selected whichever track had the focus. If a track was selected but a different track had the focus, it would still select the track with the focus. I don't think there was ever a way to drag across the timeline and not have something selected, either track or bus, but it didn't select all.
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jbraner
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Re: SONAR likes to "select all" a lot now.
2017/09/14 18:59:10
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That's the point - it didn't select all 😉
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