SONAR's Music Notation Tools (Staff View) Are Terrible!

The Eraser tool works for MIDI notes in staff view, as well as anything else that needs erasing. The keyboard shortcut is F10. 

Only in the PRV. In staff view, a right-click opens note properties.

Anderton
Only in the PRV. In staff view, a right-click opens note properties.

Thanks for correcting me Craig...
 
It's been a while since I used the Staff View... ;-)
 
 
 

bigpiano
All I can say is that I'm glad I still have my Cakewalk Pro 8 still installed for MIDI notation, as the tools available in SONAR are less than satisfactory for actual composers.
To erase a MIDI note, for example, one soon learns that the Eraser Tool is gone in Staff View. I believe there is a way over in the Piano Roll View but this is extremely inconvenient for musicians used to dealing with notation.
It's clear overall in the program that in an effort to make music making *fun* and accessible for non-musicians, classic trained musicians are given the short shrift.  

Yeah, Cakewalk has managed to make the staff view even more dysfunctional.  They recently took away the track numbers from the track pane on the right side of the screen.  Why this decision was made (if it was actually a decision) is beyond me.   The snap function is getting worse, it's worse than it's ever been, although I have found a way to still use it, it's tricky and the only way I could help somebody use it would be to actually be standing next to them to show them how to enter notes at the right position.  It's a hit-and-miss affair.  And while the paste-special seems to be working OK (sometimes) in notation, in the event list it still doesn't work at all, you have to make a track active in order to paste into it, which of course defeats the whole point of "paste-special".
 
I have no idea why CW refuses to prioritize the staff view for a while.  I cannot believe it is only an economic decision, I suspect some underlying ideology about notation must also play a part in the neglect.  Maybe the next update will change this, but it's hard not to give up hope given the amount of time these bugs have been around and ignored.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/symph8mvt4.htm
 
 
 
 

jfcomposer

jsg
Yeah, Cakewalk has managed to make the staff view even more dysfunctional.  They recently took away the track numbers from the track pane on the right side of the screen.  

And this is why I haven't updated Sonar in months. Aside from staff view, Sonar can already do way more than I'll ever need... my workflow is pretty set and I don't do any audio work to speak of, so all the bells and whistles they keep adding do me no good.  I don't even use PRV, so while I'm happy for the folks who do, those changes didn't help me personally.  And at every release I was tempted to update, but would hit the forums first and see issues people were having with it, or that the staff view got the accidental shaft once again.  Just not worth the hassle for features I likely won't use.

I understand how you feel, I avoid upgrades often for the same reason.  But the ability of Sonar to now start playback in the middle of a long note (and still have it sound) is such an important feature for me that I upgraded for that reason and I put up with the lesser issues (lesser for me).   I keep hearing from people at Cakewalk that the staff view is going to get some attention soon, but I don't know whether "soon" means next month or 10 years from now.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/symph9mvt1.htm
 
 
 

jfcomposer
Short of a God's-gift-to-programming, Linus Torvalds type celebrity figure, I can't imagine any programmer retaining exclusive rights to a work product done for a company, under contract or otherwise.  I think the problem is more one of dollars and cents; once the staff view was originally completed and worked well enough, the focus (and the userbase) shifted toward audio production and that's where the programming focus has stayed for years. And years.  
 
And years.
 
At least until the PRV got some love the past couple months.  Hats off to Cake for giving it some attention, for sure.  But my guess is that as the staff view code has aged, it has become a bigger and bigger project to overhaul it, and with staff view diehards such as myself making up such a small percentage of the userbase (and thus income), priorities go where the money is.  I don't fault Cakewalk for that, necessarily, as it makes good business sense and has obviously kept them afloat so far.
 
Doesn't make me want staff view fixes any less, though. :)

If Sonar's staff view were on par with the rest of the program, I'd bet that Sonar would make inroads into the educational market, thereby increasing sales and revenue.   All colleges and conservatories that have music technology courses are going to be interested in a DAW that has an adequate notation editor.   
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
 

Wasn't staff view sold off?  isn't it Overture now produced by Sonicscore??  https://sonicscores.com/
 
I was lucky recently to purchase Overture 5 in a fantastic deal... and wouldn't mind at all if  cakewalk collaborated with this company (if possible!!!)
 
 
 

IMHO, Cakewalk should purchase StaffPad Ltd (2 employees as far as I know), both for their awesome app http://staffpad.net  and as an 'acquihire' to get them to work on Sonar's notation, Sonar's touch interface and more.
 

What's really odd and disappointing is that I've been in touch with several Cakewalk people and they all tell me that the staff view is going to get some attention and that there's energy at the company to do something about it. In late December 2016, I was told that things are moving forward and that finally, the notation editor is going to get an upgrade within a few updates. 
 
January, February, March, April and May have passed.  No upgrade, no fixing of the notation bugs, nothing, in fact the snap function is getting more dysfunctional.
 
For contrast,  I bought VSL's MIR convolution reverb last December and found a bug and reported it.  Within 2 days the bug was confirmed and another few days later they sent me a fix.   There's a company that cares about the quality of the software they produce and when they know about a bug, they fix it. 
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/mp3/Raga.mp3
 
 
 
 

Staff view works perfect.
I've used to like 3 times to look at the dot thingy's. And I have seen dots all 3 times

I promised myself that after X3, I would only upgrade if there was proper attention paid to the the triplet related issues in staff view.

I thought I would vote with my dollars (or lack thereof).

And I made it a point to limit my b1tching and moaning on the forum.

I was rewarded by no longer being eligible to upgrade from X3.

So even if there is an improvement around the corner, my upgrades, which I thought in some small way, might be funding a future staff view improvement - I'm SOL.

Thanks Cakewalk.

jsg
I have long stated that the purpose of a notation editor in a DAW is for MIDI input and editing only, not for creating a publish-quality score.   
 

Nail on the head.  I don't think it should be Cakewalk's objective to make Sonar's staff view into anything close to Finale or similar, and I haven't seen any serious requests for that.  Engraving and printing is an art all its own and the tools that already exist in that space are incredible.  Instead, Sonar's staff view should function as a MIDI editor, as you stated, preferably with the same polish the rest of the application has, without the (IMO) unnecessary fluff that comes along with print-quality scores.
 
As far as voting with my dollars, I owned X2, never bought X3, then signed on to the monthly plan when it was introduced.  I paid into it for at least as long as it takes to "own" Sonar, hoping that breaking the updates into smaller chunks would allow the bakers to whittle away at the long-standing staff view issues, one at a time.  My benchmark for success, to keep me subscribing, was just one real staff view fix a month.  That was it; throw us a bone, fix snap, fix triplets, fix paste special having a mind of its own, put the note icons back at the top, or heaven forbid add the first new feature in 18-odd years.
 
We did get a few sporadic staff view fixes, but they weren't issues I'd ever encountered using Sonar since version 2.2.  So I'm happy if those fixes helped some people, and I really do mean that.   I'm sure Anderton or somebody can point to dozens of bug reports I haven't seen, and that's fine, but what I have seen from staff view users all deal with triplets and other functionality issues.
 
So I unsubscribed once it became clear my subscription wasn't going toward development I cared most about.  The only card I have to play, in this poker game, is my subscription fee, and it's precisely why I didn't go for lifetime updates.  I figured I'd get on board with the new dev/pricing model and give them a fair shake.  So far, it hasn't really panned out.
 
I maintain hope that things will change.
 
 
 

As far as the talk of this bit or other being sold off I would like to have it confirmed in writing by a link to a bona fide article rather than unsubstantiated comments which just doesn't add up.

mudgel
As far as the talk of this bit or other being sold off I would like to have it confirmed in writing by a link to a bona fide article rather than unsubstantiated comments which just doesn't add up.

It wasn't sold off as far as the newsprint indicated simply that the developer and twelve tone systems inc parted ways. I have posted the newsprint several times in the past. This was back around sonar 1 or 2, right after pro audio 9. The developer has gone on to sell an improved product with his own company. I merely speculate that the rights went with him because nothing has been done to make it work better in almost 20 years. It really doesn't matter how many personnel and ownership changes cakewalk has gone through. 20 years, it could have been addressed by now if it was possible. Let us all hope I'm wrong.