S&P Downgrades US Debt

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space_cowboy
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2011/04/18 13:31:29 (permalink)

S&P Downgrades US Debt

Still AAA but watch negative.  

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/18/news/economy/us_credit_rating_outlook_lowered/index.htm



Some people call me Maurice
 
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    spacey
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 13:38:04 (permalink)
    Easy turnaround I think.
    Stop investing in destruction in other countries
    and invest in construction in ours.
    Make everybody happy.
    Deficit lowering. Economy boost. Lower unemployment...get
    people working and then....
    tax everybody the same, 10% across the board.

    I am nobody and I approve this message.

    Vote Spacey.
    #2
    bapu
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    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 14:17:30 (permalink)
    My tax solution is this:
    First a few premises:
    On the supply of money side
    Saving money is crucial to employment growth.  If money goes into the bank, banks lend that money to people to buy houses, cars, start businesses.. all of these tend to create jobs.
    If money goes into the stock market, then it increases the pool of cash that can be drawn upon to fund business growth
    But the current system double taxes investment and savings.  If you make $1000, you get taxed on it.  IF you invest it and make it worth $1500, you get taxed on the $500 you made.  That discourages investment.  That is bad.  

    On the demand for money side
    Certain things are necessary for all.  Food, clothes, medicine, basic housing...
    Certain people do need a break. 

    My solution
    Tax all purchases beyond necessities.  
    Define the difference between necessities and luxuries.  
    Maybe you need to have dinner.  You can have Rice-A-Roni or Foie Gras and Caviar.  One of them is a necessity.  

    What you create is a voluntary progressive tax system.  
    If you are low income, and if you pay basic rent and food and medicine, you pay NOTHING
    If you are rich and live life like the world's most interesting man, you pay 25% or something like that.
    BUT
    If you are rich, but you save (and therefore increase the capital pool for investment in companies and homes and stuff), YOU PAY NOTHING.
    So the system becomes a progressive tax based on consumption, not on income.  Everyone pays the same tax on buying an Escalade.  Nobody pays any tax on buying clothes from Old Navy.  Or from eating Spam.  

    It also picks up tons of income that is not ever reported
    Money earned illegally - not taxable right now.  Would be with my system if you moved from necessities to luxuries.
    Money earned by those who are not supposed to be in this country, again, if they buy an Escalade, TAXES!

    You could fire almost everyone at the IRS.  Some people would have to debate what qualified as a necessity versus a luxury.  

    But there is NO FRIGGIN WAY that system could be as complicated as the one today.  

    I have a BS in Electronics Engineering (think lots of math and physics) and worked on about 4 different masters degrees before throwing in the towelie and getting an MBA.  

    I do not understand the tax system.  

    Most people do not.  

    As such, an entire industry exists specifically to be the interface between the IRS and the general public.  

    One important issue though
    If we ever get to the point where 51% pay NO taxes yet can vote whatever they want from the 49% who pay ALL taxes, there is a disaster coming.  We are getting close.  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    bapu
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 14:21:21 (permalink)
    space_cowboy


    live life like the world's most interesting man The Bapu, you pay 25% or something like that (+ 109% to The Bouy, Ltd.) 
    Inflated.
    #5
    Bub
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 15:24:23 (permalink)
    Speaking of taxes, I'd like someone to explain to me how I was out of work for more than half the year in 2010 and I ended up paying $1500 in Federal taxes. Talk about kicking someone in the balls when he's down.

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 15:32:06 (permalink)
    Bub it is probably that interest income on the billions you have in savings.  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    Bub
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:01:44 (permalink)
    space_cowboy


    Bub it is probably that interest income on the billions you have in savings.
    :)


    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:19:21 (permalink)
    It sounds like you're talking about the FAIRTAX  dot org....

    no IRS, no corporate tax (businesses don't pay tax anyway, they simply add it to the cost and the consumer pays it ), no tax paid on the first $32k for a family of 4..($8k per person) , your tax form is a post card that tells how many people are living in your household as dependents, the IRS keeps that data current and sends you a refund check based on the number of dependents every month for the taxes paid under the threshold. (IIRC it is about $150/person monthly @23% tax rate) No IRS audits, no April 15th deadline, no penalties, no interest.....

    Everyone who buys anything in the USA pays whether they are legal, tourist, citizen, or in the black market....it's collected at the cash register and remitted to the state just liek sales tax now...the stae send it to the feds..... with a balanceed budget amendment that says they can only spend what they take in ..... we'll be on the road to solving one of the problems we have in this country... the out of control spending and re-distribution of wealth through the IRS.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/04/18 16:22:34

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    #9
    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:50:17 (permalink)
    Yeah
    I am all about 
    1) Balanced budgets!
    2) fair taxation

    While the press likes to rail on the wealthy, in fact the number of people paying NO taxes has risen dramatically.  

    For those of you who do not do economics, the lack of balance in the budgets means 
     - more borrowing
     - ultimately higher interest rates
     - declining dollar purchasing power
     - rising prices since we import tons of stuff.

    In otherwords - rising risk of stagflation - one of the hardest to tame beasts on the economic terror grid.  

    All of that is really really bad if you buy food or use electricity or drive or have anything plastic in your house.  





    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    bapu
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:51:44 (permalink)
    space_cowboy

    All of that is really really bad if you ... have anything plastic in your house.   

    So I have to remove the sofa covers now?


    #11
    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:53:14 (permalink)
    yep.  That comes from oil - which will be like $174,545.77 per thimble by the end of the year.  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    bapu
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 16:59:01 (permalink)
    space_cowboy


    yep.  That comes from oil - which will be like $174,545.77 per thimble by the end of the year.  

    I just had a brilliant idea.


    I'm going to start making 24kt gold thimbles with secure tops. What better way to secure your oil?
     
    #13
    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 17:19:07 (permalink)
    too dangerous.  The thimble needs to be hermetically sealed in a vacumm tight carrier.  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    craigb
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 20:08:55 (permalink)
    space_cowboy


    too dangerous.  The thimble needs to be hermetically sealed in a vacumm tight carrier.  


    And hermits historically resist being sealed...

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/18 20:55:54 (permalink)
    and the seals don't like it either.

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    philz
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/19 00:42:23 (permalink)
    space_cowboy


    Still AAA but watch negative.  

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/18/news/economy/us_credit_rating_outlook_lowered/index.htm

    OMG, I am just so shocked!
    As usual the ratings agencies are late to the party.  That was S&P, right?  Geniuses.
     
    What do you suppose the credit rating would be if that were the debt of a corporation (assuming the same balance sheet)?
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/19 07:56:33 (permalink)
    philz


    space_cowboy


     
    What do you suppose the credit rating would be if that were the debt of a corporation (assuming the same balance sheet)?


    Bernie Maddoff comes to mind. 

    The business bankrupt and the doors locked, the stockholds with the short end of the stick, and the CEO's in prison.....

    Hey... what a great idea! I'm all for sending our leaders that got us into this mess to that prison that makes them dance to MJ..... a fate worse than death.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #18
    space_cowboy
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    Re:S&P Downgrades US Debt 2011/04/19 10:03:04 (permalink)
    I agree.  I used to work at a Hedge Fund.  We were not active traders, we didn't use derivatives, we bought small cap stocks and held them for 6-24 months.  We did our own research.  

    Two of our largest investors were "funds of funds" - a type of fund that does not manage any money on their own, but instead manages a set of investments in other fund managers.  Long story short - these guys should be doing the work to make sure they have given the money to the right people.  

    Turns out the two biggest investors we had were also tied up in Madoff related stuff.  Their investors shut them down, which of course killed us.  We were up 70% in 2009 and had less than 1/2 the money that we started the year with after the Madoff stuff.  

    So much for doing the right things.  

    Now I work 80+ hour weeks, travel more than I like to think about and have maybe fired up my DAW 4-5 times so far in 2011.  And I am making the same pay I was when I worked about 50 hours a week. 

    Thanks Bernie!  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
    SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc.  Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad.  2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1.  More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent.  Zendrum!!!
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