S/PDIF Help Needed

Hi,
 
Out of desperation I thought maybe some of the knowedgable experts here on the Sonar forum might be able to enlighten me as to how to solve a device/software interaction challenge in a DAW which revolves around Sonar.   I use Sonar and a FireFace 400 with a Windows PC.  Simple so far, right?  But I also have a Sound Blaster card that I like very much for the onboard synth chips which I use primarily for soundfonts.  So, I set the system rate to 48K and everything works fine (FF400 as Master).  Now enters the challenge - a Kemper Profiling Amp.  For whatever reason this device cannot do anything but 44.1K and has to be master as well.  Which is not a problem for analog connectivity into the FF400.  HOWEVER I really want/need to connect this device via S/PDIF.  The S/PDIF output is superior and ultimately results in less "smear" and better feel than the analog outs.  How can I accomplish making this all work??  Is there some tip or trick anybody might know of?  Or is there a small single-channel rate converter box that I might fit into the system to allow the Kemper to play with the rest?
 
Help.....    
 
     Sonic

gswitz
I would just go analog on the case. I know it isn't what you want. The FF will do a great job.

Believe it or not, something is impacting the sound, very minor but enough.  Not sure if it is Kemper or FF or both. The analog connection just doesn't sound as clear and punchy.  There's also more smear/hair in the high-frequency gain harmonics of the modeled amp.  S/PDIF is just better sounding, more real.
 
So....if it turns out there is absolutely no way to solve this S/PDIF connectivity problem, and I decide to run at 44.1K, then what is the proper way to configure the FF400 and Sonar?  I know to set the FF400 to Slave so it syncs properly with the Kemper - but then what should the Sonar playback & recording timer Master settings be set to - "FF400 Analog", "FF400 SPDIF" or "None" ?

You should be fine setting the playback and recording master to FF400 Analog.  
 
My set up is FF400 on my desktop salved to the FF UFX connected to my laptop and I have it set to analog on both machines without any problems. 

Everybody, thanks for the replies so far....

Sanderxpander
I had no problems setting the FF to digital slave and letting the Kemper be Master. Any digitally connected system can only have one clock rate and one master. So it's either that or analog.

 
Can you tell me what is the proper way then to configure the FF400 and Sonar via S/PDIF at 44.1K then?  I know to set the FF400 to Slave so it syncs properly with the Kemper - but then what should the Sonar playback & recording timer Master settings be set to - "FF400 Analog", "FF400 SPDIF" or "None" ?   I don't plan on keeping the Kemper powered on simply to act as Master clock unless I am tracking with it.   I assume I should NOT choose "None" because that would cause Sonar to "float" or use an internal/system clock of some sort which is probably not a good thing.  Which leaves "FF400 Analog" or "FF400 SPDIF".

 
What would happen if I were to select "FF400 SPDIF"?  I know it works fine when the Kemper is powered on, but when the Kemper is shut off then what would happen when I went to track something else or play back?
What would happen if I were to select "FF Analog"?  Would this cause Sonar to always use FF internal clock and keep things in sync regardless of whether the Kemper was powered on and acting as Master via SPDIF?  
 
I think you get my confusion here......

If recording via S/PDIF, you must select it as the recording timing master. 

Yes, I often use my Yamaha 01v which is 44.1 only. I may return to a project that had used it later on and not have it turned on and the project loads and plays fine, it simply uses Sonars clock.  
So just use it and then move on. Your just stuck with 44.1 and that's been fine by me. My gear isn't good enough that anyone is going to know any difference. 
I'm not sure why your worried about sound fonts,, seems most left those behind in the distant past. We have much better sounds available now. 

Sanderxpander
RME has a super steady clock that doesn't create interruptions even when suddenly the master is lost - it'll just switch to its internal clock. You can leave Sonar's "timing master" to FF400 analog. The DSP inside the RME makes sure everything is synced to the S/PDIF input, it has nothing to do with Sonar. If you turn the Kemper off the RME should switch back to internal clock automatically.

Thanks for the insight Sander this is exactly what I was hoping.  That if the FF400 is slave to SPDIF and it looses the clock (i.e. Kemper powered off) the FF400 is smart enough to switch over to it's internal clock and assume Master.  It was then a case of how do I set Sonar.  I was guessing the best common denominator was "FF400 Analog" (over "FF400 SPDIF").  After reading more in the Sonar manual it seems the Sonar timer selections are geared more toward a Driver/Device than inputs.  In other words, it wouldn't matter whether Analog or SPDIF settings were chosen because they are both control by the same driver/device.  Assuming I read things correctly.  If that is true though it does raise the question of WHY then does Sonar have two separate FF400 selections - one for SPDIF and one for Analog?    Guess my only concern here is, when the Kemper is on and the FF400 is acting as SPDIF slave (and if Sonar is set to Analog) then will that cause Sonar to try and clock to the FF400 internal clock (which is NOT the master at that point)?  
 
Somebody on the RME forum explained to me that in my particular case I have no worries because the Master clock only comes into play with digitally connected devices (i.e. SPDIF).  So as long as I have only ONE digital device (the Kemper) ever during a session, then I won't have to worry about clock/sync/alignment issues between Sonar and the FF400.   Not sure if this is correct, but it was explained this way.

bitflipper

SonicExplorer

bitflipper
If recording via S/PDIF, you must select it as the recording timing master. 

...So if I were to turn it off, am I still okay to just continue on with Sonar still set to SPDIF as timing master?   

You only need to specify S/PDIF as the clock while recording from that source. Once you've recorded the track, you can switch back to letting SONAR do the clocking. In fact, you have to switch back once the S/PDIF source has been disconnected, since then the clock is no longer present.
 
As Sanderxpander notes, some audio interfaces are smart enough that it doesn't matter. That has not been the case with the interfaces that I've used (Roland, MOTU, Focusrite), but then I've never been in a position to afford an RME. 

Hold on a moment bitflipper.... When you say I must have the master set to SPDIF when recording from that source, are you referring to the setting within Sonar as well as the FF400?   Because if you also mean the setting in Sonar, then that differs from prior advice of setting to "FF400 Analog" inside Sonar.

Ok, reporting back.  Taking the advice & guidance from the forum, I went and performed a bunch of tests.  In fact, the FF400 (when set to Sync Mode) detects any changes in clock source and adjusts itself.  And choosing the "FF400 S/PDIF" setting in Sonar as the Timing master for Playback/Recording works well.  So, to sum up, when configured this way a person can track with the Kemper via S/PDIF, is free to turn the unit on or off at will, and keep working along in Sonar during the session.
 
Thank very much guys, appreciate the help!
 
Sonic