SSL Nucleus with Sonar X1 - from the horses mouth

Hi all,
 
I have been in contact with SSL over the past few weeks regarding the Nucleus controllers support of Sonar X1.  Here is the response I got from Andy Jackson after he tested the two products together:
 
"I finally got around to having a look at Sonar X1 and Nucleus. It seems that currently Sonar haven’t implemented the MCU in accordance to how we would expect in X1. This is interesting  because I have also read of issues with other midi controllers in X1. I would like to send an email to Sonar to see what their position on MCU implementation is in X1.
We have known our controller implementation to work absolutely fine in previous versions of Sonar– we have a dedicated profile for the Duality and AWS consoles with Sonar. From previous experience, considering that Steinberg had some major problems with controllers when they moved from Nuendo 3 to 4, it is not unlikely that the relatively new X1 could have suffered in a similar manner, although it is not for me to say."
 
..and a day or so later...
 
"One of my colleagues has also spoken to Cakewalk/Sonar regarding control surface integration and apparently you have to download their SDK - see here : http://www.cakewalk.com/devXchange/article.aspx?aid=111
It seems that currently Roland's control surfaces are well supported (Cakewalk being owned by Roland), but 3rd party control surfaces it seems are not supported in quite the same way. From what my colleague understands you have to use a “Generic Control Surface” protocol within Sonar.  Then you have to program it yourself...
Hopefully, at some point in the not too distant future there may be more 3rd party support for us and other 3rd party product companies... :)
Kind Regards,
Andy
Andy Jackson
WPP Product Specialist
Solid State Logic"
 
So basically they will not play nicely with each other straight OOTB.  Someone could write an interface program with the Cakewalk SDK but personally I wouldn't want to spend 5K+ USD on buying the Nucleus just to enter a world of pain developing an interface that I may or may not get working.
I would be interested if someone else (esp. Cakewalk) feels differently.
Cheers,
Thomas

My impression is that nobody is working on developing an interface currently.

You could always download the SDK and have a crack yourself though ;-)

I would be really interested to hear the Calkwalk side of the story here.

Hi Thomas,

I'm not sure that SSL fully read the article you linked or the SDK documentation.  If they want a dedicated surface for SONAR then yes they would have to write a control surface plugin.  The SDK even includes example code using the CM Labs MotorMix.  Many third-parties do this that want surface support in SONAR for their device or if they want additional functionality.

Out of the box, SONAR ships with a Mackie Control Surface plugin, The Generic Control Surface and a handful others.  If the Nucleus supports Mackie Control it could be used with the Mackie Control surface plugin.  If it does not they can use the Generic Surface, this is what you can use with any MIDI device that you'd like to use to control strip parameters in SONAR.

It's impossible for us to provide full support a la the VS-700/VS-100 for every companies hardware - aside from just not being familiar with their hardware we can't control their release cycle, firmware updates or necessarily write code to interface with their unique hardware.  To that end, our free SDK enables them to have surface control in SONAR.

I hope that clarifies and again if they can't make a dedicated plugin for SONAR - Mackie Control, Ole' Fashioned MIDI Learn, ACT and the Generic Surface are all options.  We have a tech tip (written for the A&H ZED) that covers 3 of these types of setups you can check out here: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013071

tomlillie
Hi,
 
I have an SSL Matrix that I have been using with Sonar X2 using the MCU profile.
 
I contacted SSL and they were very helpful and in fact have put together a basic Sonar template for the Matrix (that should I also work for the Nucleus I guess?). Thanks to Andy at SSL!
It's not perfect (i'm still struggling to get control for plug ins onto the Matrix controls)- but it is a lot better than nothing
 

 
This is great news!!!!!!! Is the template posted online?

I think that the controller manufacturers expect Cakewalk to build the control surface dll - it seems that that is how other DAW manufacturers work (they do the donkey work, rather than the controller manufacturer).

I think if nothing else, this control surface support and implementation saga is a hugely limiting factor if Cakewalk ever wish to be on par with competing products.

I work in the education sector using Pro Tools, Logic and Ableton Live.  They all support, and make it incredibly easy to setup and use, control surfaces and high end professional consoles.  The implementation and support is incredible.
Cakewalk Sonar? Unfortunately not.  Limited support and many excuses.

I sincerely hope Cakewalk decide to turn this issue around, instead of chasing trends, such as touch.

chilldanny

I sincerely hope Cakewalk decide to turn this issue around, instead of chasing trends, such as touch.

 
Touch isn't a trend. It's in spacecraft, cars, planes, homes, phones, watches, laptops, tablets, POS systems, and your desktop computer. Doctors even use touch screens in the operating room. Once haptics mature you'll see entire industries switch over and the future of dedicated hardware controllers will become more and more niche.
 
Even the Slate Raven MTX is touch - http://www.slateproaudio.com/products/raven-mtx/

chilldanny
Regardless of who manufactures the product, surely it falls to Cakewalk to ensure trouble free and full feature compatibility?

 
Is it Toyota's job to make sure every single brand of 205/55R16 tire works with their 2014 Corolla, if their rim meets the UTQGS standards? Is it Honda's job to make sure every OBDII scanner works correctly with their vehicle if they already adhere to the OBDII spec? Is it Microsoft's responsibility for the latest AMD or Nvidia card to have properly written drivers? No, all of those cases fall on the 3rd party to ensure compatibility. Willy already stated above why we can't create stuff for every surface on the market. 
 
Re: VS-700. We have employees who use the VS-700 on Win 8.1 and SONAR X3 everyday. There's also a few users in the VS-700 forum that use it with X3 as well. The legends of it being completely unusable are greatly exaggerated.
 
The VS-700 is a Roland product and we are no longer a part of Roland. The control surface plug-ins are also open source now so they should be able to be readily adapted to any changes in newer versions of SONAR. It's up to Roland if they will continue driver support into Win9 and beyond.

it looks like the hardware guys expect the software guys to make it work, and vice versa

SuperG
 you are the one who want's to sell onto some DAW - so you do the work to make sure *your* HW product looks good!
 

Yeah totally, but when you're Solid State Logic who make some of the finest consoles available that work with Live, Cubase, Protools, Logic, Studio One, Reaper (I'm forgetting a couple here, let's say every major daws), and then you come to Sonar's makers and have a "spectacular unresponsiveness" from them (an SSL staff member really said that, I will find the quote if necessary), you probably say to your clients "well, if you want to use our products, maybe you should stick to Protools, or any other daw than Sonar".
 
And they will! When you have a multi hundred thousand bucks studio (or even my modest couple K$ one), you want your clients to see SSL-like names. And when you buy ssl gear that complies to the mcu protocol, you expect it to integrate without drama with your daw.
 
That seem to mean that Cakewalk have a different approach, the only daw which is windows only, the only daw that don't care about Solid State Logic which hardware is found in EVERY major studios.
 
I would not compare Sonar to Windows in Seth exemple, but more to Linux, at least regarding control surfaces. Linux is the less supported os cause cause they think "if they want something to work, they just have to hack their way there". Well many people decide to use Windows or OSX cause everything is ready to use.
 
Maybe times were hard with the Roland and the X serie legacy and they had no time for SSL but I still think that a little something could be done.
 
I have a $5K SSL Nucleus that literally make Sonar crash. SSL + iPMidi + the current MCU/XT = total mess/eventual crash when the project is getting larger.
 
I NEED to use another daw to use my Nucleus, or disable it completely when using Sonar, that's a REALLY bad surprise. Imagine if I bought a $100k SSL AWS. Sonar would be forever in the garbage and I would spread the word to those who ask which daw to choose.
 
Don't you think?

thanks Craig.... I see the article was updated the 17/11/2014... maybe there's hope...
 
But still, I need to verify I have a Sonar profile on my Nucleus memory card, it's up-to-date and there's no mention of it in the release note

Any update on nucleus and sonar integration ?
If some avid control ..artist or s3 have also infos .... Tired of the vs 700 ...