Helpful ReplySampletank 3 crashing Sonar

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SquareSpiral
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2017/11/13 00:19:50 (permalink)

Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar

Hi all,
 
Earlier this year I custom built I new studio computer and immediately ran into some repeated crashing issues with it after setting it up. At the time one of the main culprits for causing the crashes seemed to be ST3.
 
With the amazing help of some of the good folks on these forums I worked through most of my issues and discovered things I had forgotten to deal with when setting up my system and all was well, or so I thought.
 
Despite the fact I solved many of the problems I was having with my new system, I now realise that because of the repeated ST3 issues I was having I simply began to stop using it in my productions as I had time critical work to complete so I deferred to my proven stable plug-ins. Recently I reached for ST3 again as I knew it had a particular sound I needed and boom - we are on the first train straight back to crash-ville again.
 
My system is a core i7 7700 with 32Gb of ram and SSD's for both system and sample drives - plenty of grunt to run all I need. However even an empty project with a single instance of ST3 called up - play a good bunch of notes in fast succession and Sonar crashes and the report window points to ST3 as the cause.
 
I wondered if it was because I had the ST3 plugin on the system drive and the sample data on the sample drive - but tonight I tried moving all the sample data on the standard installation path on the system drive but to no avail - 1 instance, handful of notes and boom.
 
Strangely ST3 runs absolutely fine on my older, slower laptop with only 8Gb and a mech HDD - Go figure?
 
Anybody got any wisdom to impart on this problem I would be glad to hear it!!
 
Thanks in advance
 
Chris - SquareSpiral 
 
 

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#1
msorrels
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 00:53:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/11/13 01:14:09
Are you using the VST3 Sampletank 3 plugin?  Sampletank's VST3 plugin has always had issues, and not just with SONAR.  The VST2 versions seem to avoid some of these problems. 
 
Note: just disabling the VST3 version in the plugin manager isn't quite enough to stop it from being used.  If you have a old SONAR project file that had the VST3 plugin inserted, even if you disable the VST3 Sampletank in the plugin manager, if the .vst3 file is still on the computer and you load that project, SONAR will use the VST3 version.
 
The only way to be sure is to delete/rename/move the VST3 plugin from your path.  And yes, I've learnt this the hard way.
 
Sampletank 3 is also very, very sensitive to your audio cards buffer settings.  I have some Sampletank 3 projects (using multiple tracks and multiple instruments) that will crash SONAR if my interface's sample size is too low.  For me (perhaps it is only me?) there are three levels of ASIO buffer size settings.  Below a certain point big Sampletank 3 projects will just flat out crash.  Above that, but still in a reasonable zone, I get some pops and clicks during playback.  In order to get good playback and no crashes I generally have to set the buffer much larger than I'd like.

-Matt
 
#2
abacab
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 15:55:04 (permalink)
SampleTank 3 was updated to v3.7 around the time that Syntronik was released this year.

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#3
jude77
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 16:00:39 (permalink)
msorrels
Are you using the VST3 Sampletank 3 plugin?  Sampletank's VST3 plugin has always had issues, and not just with SONAR.  The VST2 versions seem to avoid some of these problems. 
 
Note: just disabling the VST3 version in the plugin manager isn't quite enough to stop it from being used.  If you have a old SONAR project file that had the VST3 plugin inserted, even if you disable the VST3 Sampletank in the plugin manager, if the .vst3 file is still on the computer and you load that project, SONAR will use the VST3 version.
 
The only way to be sure is to delete/rename/move the VST3 plugin from your path.  And yes, I've learnt this the hard way.
 
Sampletank 3 is also very, very sensitive to your audio cards buffer settings.  I have some Sampletank 3 projects (using multiple tracks and multiple instruments) that will crash SONAR if my interface's sample size is too low.  For me (perhaps it is only me?) there are three levels of ASIO buffer size settings.  Below a certain point big Sampletank 3 projects will just flat out crash.  Above that, but still in a reasonable zone, I get some pops and clicks during playback.  In order to get good playback and no crashes I generally have to set the buffer much larger than I'd like.


I think this is your solution.  I had the exact same problem, did the above steps and now ST3 is happy with SONAR.
 
Good luck.

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#4
abacab
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 16:12:05 (permalink)
jude77
 
I think this is your solution.  I had the exact same problem, did the above steps and now ST3 is happy with SONAR.
 
Good luck.




Was it buffer settings or VST3?

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#5
msorrels
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 19:47:05 (permalink)
One handy tip at getting rid of the VST3 Sampletank 3.  Before removing the VST3 plugin first load any old projects that are using the VST3 Sampletank 3.  Then inside Sampletank save out a multi (select Multi then the hamburger menu and Save As) of your settings.  Then exit SONAR and remove the VST3 plugin from your plugin paths.  Now when you load the project you'll get an error and Sampletank 3 will be marked offline.  Do a Replace Synth in the Synth Rack to replace it with the VST2 version of Sampletank (so the inputs and outputs are kept) then inside Sampletank load the multi you saved.  Then re-save your project (use a new filename, just in case you need to go back).  Yes it's painful but it is doable.

-Matt
 
#6
abacab
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 20:09:18 (permalink)
VST3 SampleTank NOT crashing Sonar here.

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#7
SquareSpiral
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 20:43:12 (permalink)
Thanks for the replies everyone - just getting a chance to catch up on them now and intend to do some more digging tonight. For the record my ST3 is fully up to date at ver 3.7
I'm not intentionally using the VST3 but I do know that Sonar has a setting to preference it's use over the VST2.
 
It's strange that I never have this problem with my laptop setup with either the VST2 or 3 versions.
 
I will report back on any findings
 
Thanks
 
Chris - SquareSpiral

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#8
SquareSpiral
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 20:54:02 (permalink)
Well that was quick!
 
Removed the VST3 - loaded a single instance of the VST2, played some notes and instant crash!!!
 
The fault reporter talked about the sampletank3.vpa file if that gives anyone any clues?
 
Chris

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#9
msorrels
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 21:07:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SoundIT 2018/09/16 09:51:31
Increase your ASIO buffer.  Go big and see if it makes a difference.  1024 samples at least.

-Matt
 
#10
jude77
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 21:55:54 (permalink)
abacab
jude77
 
I think this is your solution.  I had the exact same problem, did the above steps and now ST3 is happy with SONAR.
 
Good luck.




Was it buffer settings or VST3?


It was the VST3.  Delete that using MSorrells direction and you should be good.

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msorrels
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 22:19:03 (permalink)
The VST3 version does work, sometimes.  It's more a question of how reliable it is verses the VST2 version.  And yes your mileage may vary, a lot.  I've used the VST3 version for a while only to find something tips over and it becomes a crashfest.  Switching to the VST2 version often has fixed the problem. 
 
I have given recent VST3 versions a try (more than once), but time and time again it has failed.  I'm not actually sure there is any advantage to the VST3 version vs the VST2, so it's made it easy to just banish it.
 
I wish they would look at crash reports, but I don't think it's even possible to get anything in front of IK's actual dev team.  The front end tech support people never seem to send anything through.
 

-Matt
 
#12
SquareSpiral
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 22:32:34 (permalink)
So some quick stress testing later and as other here have posited I would count the VST2 as more stable under load that the VST3 - in my system YMMV etc..
 
So the take away for me from this is that Sonar and the ID14 app are not always talking well when setting buffer sizes - Looks like I can include ST3 back into the production arsenal again.
 
Thanks very much to all who took time to comment and share ideas
 
Cheers
 
Chris - SquareSpiral

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#13
BassDaddy
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 22:43:12 (permalink)
It took a while to remember but VST3 was not stable on my system either so at some point reinstalled without VST3. 

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Grem
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 23:05:17 (permalink)
I took a shot when I installed on my Surface a d went with the vst3. So far no problems. But.it's my Surface, it really doesn't get stressed that much.

But in my music PC, I didn't install the vst3 version because of all the reports I saw.

Grem

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LANEY
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 23:22:42 (permalink)
VST3 works with no problems on my system.



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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/13 23:44:51 (permalink)
LANEY
VST3 works with no problems on my system.




ditto (although I rarely use SONAR Platinum any longer, but don't recall having issues and always use VST3)

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TigerTheFrog
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/14 12:03:04 (permalink)
I can load easily load up five instances each (and probably more) of Sampletank 3 and Syntronik as instruments and so far have had no issues or crashes.  
 
But if I try to load even one instance of either Sampletank 3 or Syntronik as a track template, Sonar Platinum immediately crashes. It's a drag because I like to use track templates, but I've learned I can't use them with these two instruments.  Maybe I will experiment with a reinstallation with VST2 at some point for both of them, as the problems with track templates could point to trouble ahead.   
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abacab
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2017/11/14 16:43:46 (permalink)
TigerTheFrog
I can load easily load up five instances each (and probably more) of Sampletank 3 and Syntronik as instruments and so far have had no issues or crashes.  
 
But if I try to load even one instance of either Sampletank 3 or Syntronik as a track template, Sonar Platinum immediately crashes. It's a drag because I like to use track templates, but I've learned I can't use them with these two instruments.  Maybe I will experiment with a reinstallation with VST2 at some point for both of them, as the problems with track templates could point to trouble ahead.   




Interesting... 
 
I usually insert SampleTank 3 with only the first stereo output, or as a simple instrument track, so don't normally encounter track templates with this plugin.
 
So I created a track template for ST3 using all stereo audio outs:  16 audio tracks + 1 MIDI track.
 
The first test project I created and saved in Sonar using just this template crashed Sonar on closing the project file twice in a row.  APPCRASH in SONARPLT.exe.  But no crashes on opening the project file.
 
But now it opens and closes just fine.  Cannot reproduce this again.  Weird...

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#19
joden
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2018/08/26 19:13:18 (permalink)
VST3 version of ST3 crashes for me constantly.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2018/08/27 17:12:44 (permalink)
I do NOT know if this is at all related, and may be a completely new set of issues with ST3, but even with ST3's VST3 version out of the picture, I cannot get ST3 to allow me to select ASIO as a driver mode in its options.
 
As soon as I click on ASIO, instead of Windows Direct (I think that is the name), ST3 simply hangs (this is running ST3 in stand-alone mode).  I have to actually pull up Task Manager to kill it.
 
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2018/08/27 17:19:21 (permalink)
I DO have to say, running ST3 inside a Sonar Platinum project - with the VST3 plugin renamed, it works just fine - the issues I raised in my earlier post were ONLY when trying to run it in ASIO driver mode.
 
Bob Bone
 

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Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#22
abacab
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2018/08/27 19:38:40 (permalink)
Try adjusting your audio card's buffer setting.

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BobF
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Re: Sampletank 3 crashing Sonar 2018/08/28 13:08:14 (permalink)
Early VST3 versions of ST3 caused problems for me.  However, later versions are rock solid here.
 
Perhaps you experienced some corruption during the crashes you were having.  I would completely uninstall/reinstall ST3 (including VST3) and see if maybe things are stable.
 
 

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