Satriani suing cold play, what do you think

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Jonbouy
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/07 16:23:12 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Fog

Jonbouy, you have reason pianos? there is a nice "in the vein of" coldplay piano preset for it


Ya but no 'Chas 'n Dave' sit up and beg 'Old Kent Road Upright Gin Palace Knee's Up' patch which is what I'm really after.

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#31
esmail1
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/07 18:24:17 (permalink)
There was an excellent series about 10 years ago called "The Rhythm of Life" which was hosted by Sir George Martin. He looked at all aspects of music and songwriting, breaking down the components of a song and how it is created. He interviewed/spent time with such greats as Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Billy Joel etc.

One particular segment with Billy Joel, he played "Uptown Girl" and talked about how he wrote it from a tune he had in his head.... then years later was listening to National Public Radio in the car, and they played a Mozart piece in which the main melody of "Uptown Girl" was the clear motif of the Mozart Piece. Joel went as far as playing "Uptown Girl" in a classical style on the piano to illustrate how close his melody is to a classical music motif. He then went on to say "I had no idea when I wrote it that i was ripping off Mozart... ha ha"...

Basically his point was that influences come from all over when writing, some realized, some not... but you dont blatently steal.

I could not find that original clip, but here is something of a similar concept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MJPjQFnH8


Here is an excerpt from this same show with Sir George Martin and Brian Wilson. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9z8xHkSMdo

post edited by esmail1 - 2009/01/07 18:35:24
#32
yorolpal
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/07 19:48:04 (permalink)
They'll probably work out a settlement ala Tom Petty and The Red Hot Chili Peppers. There are no new ideas, apparently. Sigh.

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#33
Cromberger
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/07 19:49:57 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

Every note I play reminds me I'm standing on the shoulders of giants... it's unnerving sometimes to wonder how much of a contribution I make and how much is just bubbling up from the subconscious.

It sort of makes listening to other peoples music seem dangerous.




LOL. This is so true. Some time ago, my writing partner and I wrote an instrumental song. After listening to what we'd done, we named the song "Little Stoned Animals" because we could clearly hear lines we'd unconsciously "borrowed" from the bands Little Feat, The Rolling Stones and The Animals. Shoulders of giants, indeed.

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#34
i8ipop
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/07 20:32:10 (permalink)
Bottom Line...I doubt Chris Martin has ever listened to Joe Satriani let alone heard that song before they recorded their own

Still raining...still dreaming!
#35
Jonbouy
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 01:15:56 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: i8ipop

Bottom Line...I doubt Chris Martin has ever listened to Joe Satriani let alone heard that song before they recorded their own


Can he counter suit for damages on the grounds that being found guilty of listening to Joe may affect the bands credibility causing a resultant loss of merchantability?

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#36
SongCraft
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 02:21:22 (permalink)
Not sure how this will play out! Having said that I suppose Joe will have to prove that Cold Play did indeed deliberately violate copyright law to easily win this case! Cold Play on the other-hand is claiming coincidental. George Harrison (My Sweet Lord) and many others have all been in this situation and won their case because they proved it was coincidental, unintentional and since the length isn't the whole part (such as the melodies for the whole verse or chorus including chord progression) it may be very difficult for Joe to win this one.

 
 
#37
spindlebox
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 02:51:50 (permalink)
Hmm, thanks Marah for posting that comparison. I had to listen to it twice, but I think Joe has a case. There's one thing to rip or borrow a lick here and there, but there is A LOT that is similar rhythmically with the note structures that bears closer scrutiny.

Whether Coldplay did it intentionally, I doubt it. I did a search for Coldplay-influences and the in articles I found - nothing was attributed to Satriani.

Can it really be proven? Maybe not, but I'll be interested to see what happens.

An earlier poster here said it is almost dangerous to listen to others' work while composing, things like this make me sort of agree! LOL


 

 
#38
Spaceduck
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 08:40:13 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mcourter

I ripped off a bass lick directly from Jack Bruce on Badge. I imagine I'll be hearing from him as soon as I start making money from it.


I always rip off great musicians hoping to meet them in court and get their autograph. No luck just yet, but I'll keep trying

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#39
Beagle
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 08:51:48 (permalink)
original: songcraft
George Harrison (My Sweet Lord) and many others have all been in this situation and won their case because they proved it was coincidental, unintentional and since the length isn't the whole part (such as the melodies for the whole verse or chorus including chord progression)

but that's not entirely true. yes, it was found that George UNINTENTIONALLY ripped off the melody of He's So Fine, but he didn't WIN -- he LOST! He had to surrender a lot of the royalties of My Sweet Lord.

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#40
Jonbouy
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 09:00:07 (permalink)

but that's not entirely true. yes, it was found that George UNINTENTIONALLY ripped off the melody of He's So Fine, but he didn't WIN -- he LOST! He had to surrender a lot of the royalties of My Sweet Lord.


Yet strangely Tears for Fears penned their 'Mad World' song, latterly a massive hit for Gary Jules sounding for all the world like they straight lifted the bridge from Cat Stevens' 60's hit 'Matthew and Son' for the choruses and as far as I can remember no-one batted an eyelid.

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#41
The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 09:33:18 (permalink)
Last night I started a reread of Inside Tracks.

In the third(?) chapter Jerry Wexler speaks about how the great producers of his generation were all true lovers of music... specifically in regards to their knowledge and enthusiasm for any thing ever recorded (not that it was exclusive to recordings but that's the only practical way to travel back in time). He spoke about how this gave those producers the ability to cull from a deep inventory of riffs and melodies. He wasn't talking about stealing... he was speaking of having moments of "creative" inspiration and implying that one had to listen to and know lots of music to be able to to have creative insights while writing arrangements and producing hit records.

I couldn't agree more. What (very) little success I've ever had working with musicians has always been facilitated by my lifelong interest in listening to the music I have yet to study. Listen Listen Listen... until you just have it floating around inside. :-)

best regards,
mike


#42
Nate
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 10:10:16 (permalink)
Since Satriani nor Coldplay have never asked my opinion, nor have they ever given me money for an opinion I try not to think about either much at all.
post edited by Nate - 2009/01/08 10:13:48
#43
SongCraft
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 11:50:27 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Beagle

original: songcraft
George Harrison (My Sweet Lord) and many others have all been in this situation and won their case because they proved it was coincidental, unintentional and since the length isn't the whole part (such as the melodies for the whole verse or chorus including chord progression)

but that's not entirely true. yes, it was found that George UNINTENTIONALLY ripped off the melody of He's So Fine, but he didn't WIN -- he LOST! He had to surrender a lot of the royalties of My Sweet Lord.

There was an appeal, the case went on for 12 years, Harrison actually came out of it without much loss if any even-though he had lost the case prior to the appeal.

The case was very complicated, a lot more involved. Harrison was allowed to continue earning royalties for MSL, he did not lose entirely. >>> The biggest loser was Bright Tunes Music Corp! (they went into receivership). And there was one other benefit for Harrison; another hit single: "This Song" - excerpt lyrics: "This tune has nothing Bright about it" LOL!!

 
 
#44
Beagle
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 12:32:52 (permalink)
LOL! yes, and the reason it became so complicated was because of Allen Klien switch hitting between lawsuits!

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#45
Nate
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 12:46:53 (permalink)
Lennon took a real hit for his lifting of Chuck Berry's song 'You Can't Catch Me' lyric for 'Come Together'. IRRC Harrison's final settlement...which took years and years...did not amount to much in relation to what the song generated for him. And I believe his estate now owns the rights to "He's So Fine' too.

#46
esmail1
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 18:32:18 (permalink)
The ultimate irony in all of this happened in the 80s when John Fogerty was sued by Saul Zantz for releasing "The Old Man Down the Road" which sounded like old CCR (John Fogerty) songs... i think it was "Run Through the Jungle"...which Zantz held the rights to at that point...so Fogerty was sued for ripping off himself!
#47
GrottoRob
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/08 19:30:17 (permalink)
I think John Fogerty won that one....And, as a result, he started playing CCR tunes at his shows again......IIRC...

How many songs have we all heard that remind us of something else? The lawsuits will only come up when there's a lot of potential $ involved.....

How about the verse(s) to "Cochese" by Audioslave? Sounds a lot like "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin, vocally, anyway....
#48
Nate
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/09 07:45:08 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: GrottoRob
I think John Fogerty won that one....And, as a result, he started playing CCR tunes at his shows again......IIRC...
How many songs have we all heard that remind us of something else? The lawsuits will only come up when there's a lot of potential $ involved.....
How about the verse(s) to "Cochese" by Audioslave? Sounds a lot like "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin, vocally, anyway....


Another group bought Fantasy Records. And they were more empathetic to Fogerty and fixed the long standing ugly royalty rate issue he had with Mr. Z.

As for Audioslave 'borrowing' riffs from LZ: Isn't that just ironic...someone borrowing riffs from the Queens of ripping off other musicians?
#49
LeeNeitzelMusic
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/09 12:27:29 (permalink)
Weak.

Does Joe owe some cash to a bookie or something?

They are a little bit similar in a couple spots...but I seriously doubt Coldplay went rummaging through the catalog of some has-been guitarist looking for stuff to steal.

Although....this is Coldplay's first decent showing. So....I can understand the suspicion.
#50
GrottoRob
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/09 19:19:14 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Nate

As for Audioslave 'borrowing' riffs from LZ: Isn't that just ironic...someone borrowing riffs from the Queens of ripping off other musicians?


More like justice Maybe that's why no one made a stink over it.....'cept me.....

Rob
#51
Monkey23
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/11 10:52:44 (permalink)
This lawsuit reminds me of the recent one in which The Black Crowes are suing Gretchen Wilson. Though I find that case to be a little more clear cut. Still, sometimes it's hard to tell if there really was copyright infringement or mere coincidence.
post edited by Monkey23 - 2009/01/11 19:18:54
#52
spacey
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/12 21:28:31 (permalink)
I think the only reason in the world that Satch would get in this kind of happening is if he truley believed that somebody was stealing his creation.
He is protecting something he knows he created. There is no other reason that he would pursue.

I also think that the end result will be in his favor.

I don't know if Coldplay new what they were doing or not. Only they know that truth. To me that is the question to be answered.
If they knew, shame. If they didn't know.....what a mess that none of them wanted, including Joe.

Just my thoughts.

#53
robert.t
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/13 09:22:03 (permalink)
The problem is that so much music is copied off of something else and this comedian shows. Pachelbel's Canon in D major is based on a typical and predictable chord progression. As he shows so many artists have used this chord progression over the years. I wouldn't necessarily call it plagiarism.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

Its a funny video anyway!!!

Rob

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#54
No How
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/13 12:26:49 (permalink)
It's more than a few notes. It's the melody and basic chord structure. Way too similar...just as similar as my sweet lord/he's so fine...IMO. Funny thing is, I know i've heard this very same motiff in the ancient past , maybe Earth Wind and FIre or some other groovy 70's type thing (It'll come to me in a staff meeting today)....They probably got it from Wolffy!!!....(Remember the TV show "Love American Style"?...could that be it?????)

post edited by No How - 2009/01/20 13:55:27

s o n g s

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#55
Jimbo 88
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RE: Satriani suing cold play, what do you think 2009/01/19 16:12:02 (permalink)
I don't think Joe has got a case....imagine all those blues artists getting sued by who ever recorded the blues 1st. If Coldplay had lifted and looped Joe it would be a different story.
#56
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