Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB

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fireberd
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2017/01/16 10:01:26 (permalink)

Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB

My wife was given a like new Hammond Organ by our church.  It has a 3.5 floppy disk drive and will play MIDI files. 
 
1.  Can I save instrumental songs from Sonar as MIDI? 
 
2.  Saving from BIAB.  I have the latest 2017 version.  It can save as .mid but the organ will not play them.  I tried saving as Type 0 and Type 1.  However, I can save a song in RealBand as .mid and the organ will play it.   What do I need to do in BIAB?  I sent a request to PG Music and never got a response.
 
Thanks/Jack
 
 

"GCSG Productions"
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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/16 10:31:55 (permalink)
    fireberd
    My wife was given a like new Hammond Organ by our church.  It has a 3.5 floppy disk drive and will play MIDI files. 
     
    1.  Can I save instrumental songs from Sonar as MIDI? 
     
    2.  Saving from BIAB.  I have the latest 2017 version.  It can save as .mid but the organ will not play them.  I tried saving as Type 0 and Type 1.  However, I can save a song in RealBand as .mid and the organ will play it.   What do I need to do in BIAB?  I sent a request to PG Music and never got a response.
     
    Thanks/Jack
     
     




    Sonar can save as either MIDI Type 0 or 1.

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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/16 11:18:32 (permalink)
    Also, there a freeware MIDI sequencer called Anvil Studio that is supposed to be a good MIDI event editor. 
     
    According to Cactus Music, this thing lets you dig deeper into the MIDI event list than Sonar can.
     
    This saves to MIDI as well.  http://anvilstudio.com/
     
    "With the free version, you can create an unlimited number of MIDI tracks"
     
    "New files created by Anvil Studio are always saved in MIDI-Format-1, where each track has its own MIDI channel/instrument. Files are saved in this format can be edited by other MIDI editing programs, however editing song files with another MIDI editor may cause loss of some important information. Anvil Studio stores Sequencer-Specific MIDI events to remember things like links to audio files and some staff note properties. These special events are part of the MIDI standard and do not interfere with how the song gets played by other MIDI player programs. Some other MIDI editors delete these Sequencer-Specific MIDI events from song files. Anvil Studio preserves Sequencer-Specific MIDI events created by other editors. "

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    fireberd
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/16 13:54:20 (permalink)
    To clarify with Sonar, I'm talking about analog tracks.  Can Sonar convert them to a MIDI song file?
     
    As far as Type 0 or Type 1, I tried that in BIAB and neither worked with the Hammond Organ.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/16 14:07:47 (permalink)
    If you mean audio tracks, then no.  The MIDI file spec only contains MIDI data.  Converting audio to MIDI is the new holy grail.  Just look at all of the current products aiming to do that, like Melodyne, or MIDI guitar hookups.  All succeed to some degree, but the process is far from perfect.  Works best with monophonic tracks, of course.  But there no one button, save song as, method that I am aware of.
     
    I suspect that the Hammond might only recognize an older implementation of the MIDI spec.  You might have to research the specs on the Hammond, and or look up https://www.midi.org/forum for some answers.

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/16 14:15:48 (permalink)
    If you save a whole Sonar project as a MIDI file it will save all your midi data, but of course not the audio.
    And before you save it as MIDI it's best to edit and have all midi playback via TTS_1 which is the only GM synth. Multitrack Midi files played on other equipment haveto use the GM format or it will be a mess.
     
    Make sure the Hammond is GM. If it isn't you'll be sorting that out in the owner manual. It's possible that they sold their own disks that are some weird format. The actual floppy disks might have used a strange format. Roland used to be like that with the Sound Canvas. You had to Farmat the disk in the Roland unit and then copy the midi to the disk. And if I remember, Atari and Apples could read those disks but at the time IBM (PC) computers couldn't.
     
    Sonar sort of can convert analog to midi using V Vocal or Melodyn, but that's one track at a time. And for my version of Melodyn I can only convert single note tracks like Bass.
     
    So it is possible to save a project as a midi file and certain audio tracks can be converted to midi.
     
     

    Johnny V  
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    fireberd
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/17 06:58:28 (permalink)
    Thanks.  As I suspected Sonar can't really do what I want it to do.
     
    The limited documentation we got with the Organ doesn't state what MIDI is required, just "MIDI".  No on line user documentation is available other than what we have.  The date on the documentation is 2002.  There were some "home made" floppies with MIDI music files on them that came with the organ.  These will play in Windows with the Windows Media Player.
     
    Both the BIAB program and RealTracks program are PG Music products.  Not sure what the difference is in saving, but BIAB MIDI won't play in the Organ but RealTracks will.  I can take the same BIAB song, load it in BIAB and play it OK.  If I save as MIDI file, Windows Media Player will play it but it won't play in the Organ.  If I take the same BIAB song and load it in RealTracks and save as MIDI both the Windows Media Player and the Organ will play it.   I suspect something I'm not setting properly in BIAB?  Obviously I can always use RealTracks, but the BIAB has more options for instruments and modifications and I would rather use that if I can come up with what is wrong.
     
    You are correct on format (haven't fully investigated that yet as I'm waiting on a PCIe USB 2.0 port card to use with the floppy drive which is USB 2.0 only (all I have are USB 3.0 and 3.1 ports on my new DAW PC) so I can use my DAW desktop computer instead of a laptop).  If I format with Windows on the Laptop, the floppy drive won't recognize the disc, but if I format it with the floppy drive in the Organ Windows 10 recognizes it and I can read and write to the disc.  Been years since I used a floppy drive so I have to reorient myself.
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/17 07:59:53 (permalink)
    As far as the floppy disk format goes, it might be due the default Windows file system type.  You could try using a different filesystem switch with the format command.
     
    http://www.wikihow.com/Format-a-Floppy-Disk
     
    Method 2

    Using the Command Prompt (Windows)

     
    Add switches to modify the format process. There are several switches that you can add to the end of theformatcommand to modify what happens. For example, to perform a Quick Format on the A: drive, you would type format /q a:.
    • /fs:filesystem- Replace filesystem with FAT, FAT32, exFAT, NTFS, or UDF depending on your needs.
    • /v:label- Replace label fi with the label you want to give the disk. Keep it under 16 characters for compatibility.
    • /q- Performs a quick format.
    • /c- Files added will be automatically compressed (NTFS only)
    • /p:#- Overwrites the space on the disk with 0s and then random numbers for each count. Replace # with the number of counts you want to occur. This is best used for sensitive data you want to completely erase (Vista and later only).

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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/17 08:03:11 (permalink)
    If you take a file that plays on the organ and open it up with Sonar, does it create one MIDI track in Sonar, or several?
     
    If you examine the track(s) in Piano Roll what do you see?
     

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    fireberd
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/17 09:09:09 (permalink)
    I'll have to try importing the MIDI into Sonar, after I get the needed PC hardware.

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/18 10:27:45 (permalink)
    It might be the Midi format 0 and 1 are why it plays some and not the others. Midi 1 is the multitrack and probably the one it uses. Sonar can save as both. Look when you save in BIAB if there is a option when saving.. Use Save as. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
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    abacab
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/18 16:30:33 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    It might be the Midi format 0 and 1 are why it plays some and not the others. Midi 1 is the multitrack and probably the one it uses. Sonar can save as both. Look when you save in BIAB if there is a option when saving.. Use Save as. 



    I grabbed the latest version of BIAB last month, first time in many years.  Thought it would be helpful for chord progressions, harmonies, and stuff.   Had a basic version way back 15 years ago.  It's changed a lot!
     
    Under File > Save Special > Save Song as MIDI File > MIDI file type: [selection dropdown includes Type 1, Type 0, Karaoke, and Drums on separate tracks]
     

     
    If you click the "Options..." button you get these choices as well:
     


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    fireberd
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    Re: Saving song as MIDI in Sonar or BIAB 2017/01/18 17:29:16 (permalink)
    I've been into those panels.  I saved as Type 1 and saved as Type 0, neither play on the Hammond Organ.  But, saving as MIDI in RealBand (that doesn't offer any options) works???
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
    Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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