Second time around

Author
jsykes
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 631
  • Joined: 2004/04/26 23:37:58
  • Location: N.C.
  • Status: offline
2005/03/12 23:33:01 (permalink)

Second time around

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/jeffreysykesmusic.htm

Hello to all. This is my second time posting a link to my songs that I have done using Cakewalk's GTP3 program. I want to thank all the folks who take time on this forum to share their knowlege with newcomers so we can learn the ropes.

I'd like for you all to listen to my song "Wise" which I redid recently using some new knowledge I gained here, and put my new Micro Synth by Electro Harmonix to use. My apologies to Robert Fripp.

I like to write songs and know how to play the guitar somewhat. My songs are in the rock vein, but don't fit into any category.

Please take a listen and let me know what you think. I am a newspaper editor by day, so I appreciate candor. Thanks again to folks like Chaz and Ed Summers and everyone else who participates in the forum.

Jeff.

#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    fif4lifefif
    Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 433
    • Joined: 2004/04/12 16:02:22
    • Location: Brooklyn
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/13 19:14:48 (permalink)
    I like that "lead" instrument. What is that? A guitar with reverse, reverb, reverse on it? Or is that the Micro Synth?

    Although the advice that I am able to offer is limited, I hope it's helpful.

    First, I think that the vocals are a little too low. They should be right up front, but not "on top" of the music.

    Also, around 1:55, and again around 2:35, that lead instrument seems a little hot. Try using an envelope to control it there. While it is very dynamic, it slightly overpowers the rythm tracks.

    Just my 2 cents

    -Vince
    #2
    jsykes
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 631
    • Joined: 2004/04/26 23:37:58
    • Location: N.C.
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/13 20:00:07 (permalink)
    Vince:

    That lead instrument is the micro synth.

    Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading several of the mixing books suggested on this forum and took some of my songs and tried to apply some of what I learned on this and a couple of others songs. I probably squeezed the vocals too much this time, and I'll revisit that again.

    I've also just started to get a feel for busses and volume pans (really I just play guitar, this technical recording is a brave new world for me) and I need to be more specific with the volume control to cut out those hot spots.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
    #3
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/13 21:29:48 (permalink)
    Jeff,

    The reverse guitar sound should be used for accent, At the beginning like you have it now, between some of the lines. But the vocal has to be the focus, at least for the first verse.
    With the busy bass and the lead instrument, all the melody space is used up. At the fade out there was a very nice guitar tone that would be beautiful behind the vocals. From my perspective, the arrangement need simplifying and more space.

    Don

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #4
    ed_mcg
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2741
    • Joined: 2004/04/26 11:22:59
    • Location: Minneapolis
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 11:50:11 (permalink)
    the arrangement needs simplifying and more space

    Don has it right. There good potention in this song but the arrangement is much to complex. Here's some ideas:
    - play the bass down an octave, simplify the line, and groove with the drums. I know you probably enjoyed coming up with the high line at 0:45, but I think you need to loose it, it's competing with the vocals. Maybe you can do it once (twice max) during the synth break. Also, compress and add beef to it.
    - Don's right about the reverse guitar. Less is more.
    - The rap section - might want to use a vocal effect to differentiate from the verse. This section is the most overly complex. There are some clashes in the chord/harmony - again the bass should be roots oriented here to push it harder.
    - I'm wondering about the synth solo break. It's interesting, but it sound like something from outer-space compared to the rest of the tune. Need to introduce it lightly earlier for it to be more integral.

    Again, this is good tune. Just needs a little more restraint in execution.
    #5
    mlockett
    Max Output Level: -54.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2099
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 17:26:14
    • Location: Colorado Springs, CO
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 12:14:29 (permalink)
    Ditto on most of the comments above. (I'm guessing the "reverse guitar" is the synth); it's a bit to loud in the mix for my ears. Since it doesn't really carry a melody, I would move it back in the mix.

    The vocal quality sounds good and well suited to the song, but is quite pitchy in places; also adjusting the timing of the breathing might improve things as there are times it sounds like you're running out of air. There were parts of the song where things were so busy, my mind just couldn't comprehend the pattern (and I'm someone who like lots of stuff going on).

    The style is cool and unique; it almost sounds more like jazz/rock to me, but I like it. The vocals with a little clean up will work great for this song. Overall, I like the song... it's definitely worth keeping.
    #6
    jsykes
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 631
    • Joined: 2004/04/26 23:37:58
    • Location: N.C.
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 12:15:36 (permalink)
    Ed and X: Thanks for the ideas. I certainly will visit them all this week when I return to the sprare bedroom I call my studio. These types of comments are very helpful and I appreciate them all.

    One of the things I have been told over the course of my music hobby, is that I get too busy with what's going on in the songs. I guess I am so afraid of someone saying it is too simple or mundane, I go to the opposite extreme and make it overly busy. I'll work on that.

    Thanks,

    Jeff.
    #7
    kiwisdontdrinktea
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 567
    • Joined: 2004/05/24 01:39:59
    • Location: Los Angeles
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 12:29:08 (permalink)
    What the others said about instruments clashing and competing for space. The song is too busy. Difficult to get into the groove of it. If you want to kepe the bass line maybe use it as a break out right after the solo section. I also found the drums to be very repetitive. That may be the effect you wanted as the melody was fine but also repetitive. I also found the hi-hat to be a little loud. Try panning the accoustic guitar a little further left away from that lead thingy too might create more space. Also put the hi-hats off a bit more to one side. There is too much in the middle.

    She done stole my song - Otis Redding

    http://www.beatkiwi.com
    #8
    gugliel
    Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 449
    • Joined: 2004/08/09 16:30:07
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 15:40:49 (permalink)
    Am downloading -- you might give a direct link to the song rather than having us visit your artist page, if you want to help potential listeners get to the point more quickly.

    www.soundclick.com/guglielmo
    #9
    gugliel
    Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 449
    • Joined: 2004/08/09 16:30:07
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 15:48:02 (permalink)
    Liked the chorus. THe dissociated synth sound was too far out of the mix for me. Might consider doubling the vocal part in some of the repetitions, maybe something an octave higher, or both an octave and two octaves higher -- replacing some of the extra attention grabbing sounds.

    www.soundclick.com/guglielmo
    #10
    Guest
    Max Output Level: -25.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4951
    • Joined: 2009/08/03 10:50:51
    • Status: online
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 16:29:26 (permalink)
    Hi,
    I agree the song has good potential .. but the arrangement and mix
    need some work..

    Firstly, the rhythm structure of the song needs to have a better
    foundation ... the kick and the bass need to be more prevalent
    in the song. The bass doesn't have enough definition and is
    too high up .. it's fighting with the guitars. May need a little
    compression to get it to punch out of the mix a little better.

    The drums are OK .. but they need some more interest ...
    fills, some color to keep from becoming too monotonous.

    When you mix, start with your kick and bass ... and then
    add around it ... they are the essentials ...

    Add your reverse guitar for color .. it's not a good solo instrument and
    detracts from the other more stacatto elements of the song that
    should be propelling it along.

    The random bubble synth thing doesn't work for me at all at 1:58 .. it
    got sick of it real quick .. if you keep it... align the tempo to your drum
    track.

    Simply the bass during the solos .. only one soloist at a time .....

    Vocals ... considering different EQs and verb settings from verse
    and chorus .. i think you've got what would be considered 3 separate
    tracks of vox in this one .. and it's all one .. so it's kind of jumbly.

    But I like the song and it's quirky and cool....

    jeff
    #11
    m11
    Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 417
    • Joined: 2004/10/12 12:50:38
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/14 17:42:10 (permalink)
    Hi Jeff,

    so here's the critique I promised in your other thread.
    It's as always very honest and never ment to be rude.
    I hope, you can understand all I mean. Some things were very difficult to translate.

    First thoughts:
    Sounds a bit like a jam session. I'm missing a clear song structure. It tends to get boring. I was really surprised when I saw that it's only 3:40 long. It feels much longer. I'm missing some tonality, something to hang on. All instruments seem to play around the actual chord, but none hits it. Especcially in that rap section it looses tonality totally.

    Drums: You seem to use a drumloop. An audio file? There are absolutely no variations. It's also all centered, just the reverb gives it a bit stereo feel. There's a bit of a flanging effect. Did you try to make it sound wide by nudging one channel a few ms?

    Bass: Is this a real Bass? Is it fretless? Some notes seem to be slightly out of tune. It's much to busy. When it goes to the higher notes with all that busyness it distracts from the more important things: the main melody of your song. It needs compression and it tends to be a bit loud.

    Acoustic guitar: There is some kind of permanent distortion. How did you record it? Is it recorded direct with a piezo pickup? Unfortunately it delivers very few tonality. It's also very burried. Needs compression and EQ, but I'm afraid I think you won't get it sound real good. Shouldn't be centered.

    Synth effect solo guitar: Interesting effect. But overall too loud. It shouldn't be louder than the vocals. It also noodles around almost all the time and distracts from the vocals. It needs compression and maybe volume envelope. You can see in the audio editor that it's very loud at 2:30 to 2:40. Try to get it to the same volume all the time and maybe a bit quieter while you're singing. It seems to be in front if the vocals spacially. And it's the only instrument that's not centered.

    Vocals: I usually don't critique vocal abilities, but you are very often slightly off tune. You also seem to have problems with the higher notes. Try to make your next song deeper so that it's in the range of notes you can sing better. Could have more high end.
    Rap part: Try to be better in time. You have to hit all the beats. It also could be a bit cooler. Maybe you could achieve this with an effect, or try to double it one octave lower.

    Last thoughts:
    The melody of the chorus seem to be good. I also like the intro a bit. Maybe you should build your composition around a base. A bass or rhythm guitar line that reflects the chords. Then the other instruments can play around it. Here unfortunately everything play around nothing.

    hth.
    Melf

    post edited by m11 - 2005/03/14 17:45:33
    #12
    jsykes
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 631
    • Joined: 2004/04/26 23:37:58
    • Location: N.C.
    • Status: offline
    RE: Second time around 2005/03/17 23:07:08 (permalink)
    Melf:
    Thanks for the input. I can tell you really know the finer points of recording and much about music in general. Each of your questions is right on point: it is not a real bass, I did use a drum loop and I can't sing to save my life.

    The bass line is my electric guitar played on the low end on low strings. My wife refuses to let me buy a bass because I have bought several guitars and all this digital recording gear in the last year. I hope to get one for my birthday this year. I try to stay low on the neck when I lay down the lines, but I do tend to noodle way too much. I pump the low eq and cut the high to "make do" for my purposes, but I know it doesn't have the quality of a real bass.

    I see your point about the lack of a base for the song. It actually is centered on chords from the Christmas Song by Nat King Cole. A friend of mine showed me the chords, and it is still one of my fav songs to play, but later I came up with a variation on the progression and made up this song. I'm going to kill most of the lead and focus on the jazzy sounding main guitar riff to give the song a center.

    I'll take the rest of your points to heart when I revisit the song.

    Thanks,

    Jeff.
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1