pianodano
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See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
In the left hand column. PT goes on and on about how their "workflow remains consistent from one version to the next". They continue, "So when you use PT, you're building valuable skills that will stay with you throughout your career.
I used to feel just like that about Sonar. That is until X1 came along.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 19:50:22
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Yeah...
...but do they have SONARmods?
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Splat 
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 19:50:43
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Firstly - do you really believe marketeers? Really.... do you?
And are these the words of Cakewalk or Sweetwater?
Thirdly one could assume they are talking about version X1 onwards. One could assume the previous Cakewalk version hit it's end of life when it comes to the workflow design.
Did you notice for instance that since Apple phones have come out most other software companies seemed to have changed their phone operating systems..... anybody moaning?
Here's a thought.... read the manual! Years ago, when engineers had proper desks, they would go from studio to studio..... and each desk would be different..... just think how lucky you are nowadays....
Oh and here's another idea - why not just stick with the software you have and be happy?
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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pianodano
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 19:58:37
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CakeAlexS
Firstly - do you really believe marketeers? Really.... do you?
And are these the words of Cakewalk or Sweetwater?
Thirdly one could assume they are talking about version X1 onwards. One could assume the previous Cakewalk version hit it's end of life when it comes to the workflow design.
Did you notice for instance that since Apple phones have come out most other software companies seemed to have changed their phone operating systems..... anybody moaning?
Here's a thought.... read the manual! Years ago, when engineers had proper desks, they would go from studio to studio..... and each desk would be different..... just think how lucky you are nowadays....
Oh and here's another idea - why not just stick with the software you have and be happy?
Mighty touchy about it huh ? Lots of justification in your post. And fwiw, I would be happy with 8.5 - if it weren't so buggy. That's why I bought X1 - to get bugs fixed that were if 8.5. Same with 3. And 4. And 5. And 6. Oh well, forget it. Seeing as to how I have to learn an entire new work flow, I'm sorta shopping.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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Rain
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 20:14:13
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Well, that you can believe.
Pro Tools is a "standard". It's what most engineers learn on and work with in studios, so consistency from one version to another is crucial and it shows. It's also the reason why development often seems slower than with other DAWs, particularly Sonar.
Look at a screen capture of Pro Tools 5, late 90s. Look at Pro Tools 9, the current version. It's obviously the same application. New features were carefully implemented into the existing product. Not just shoved in.
Look at a picture of Cakewalk's flagship product at that time, Pro Audio 9. Compare that to any version of Sonar. Then Sonar to X1. A lot of those changes were for the better. But a lot of things were also piled up until the box was full.
Whether it's because the product reached it's end of life, the basic fact remains. What you learned in Pro Audio 9 is no longer valid for the most part. And a lot of what you learned in Sonar's previous 9 incarnations is no longer valid either.
What you learned in PT5 is most likely still there, and then some.
One approaches its software like a tool used by engineers all over the world, with a respect for its legacy and consideration for the fact that time is money. The other constantly re-invent itself to attract new customers. And I guess it's okay.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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BenMMusTech
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 20:38:21
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I've used Protools since version 6 I think and yes in terms of workflow it is still the same and I remember the free version they brought out in 2000 or somewhere around then, it was still the same workflow.
Peace Ben
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pianodano
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 20:54:04
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Rain
One approaches its software like a tool used by engineers all over the world, with a respect for its legacy and consideration for the fact that time is money. The other constantly re-invent itself to attract new customers. And I guess it's okay.
Well said.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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Dave Modisette
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 21:06:56
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Rain
Well, that you can believe.
Pro Tools is a "standard". It's what most engineers learn on and work with in studios, so consistency from one version to another is crucial and it shows. It's also the reason why development often seems slower than with other DAWs, particularly Sonar.
Look at a screen capture of Pro Tools 5, late 90s. Look at Pro Tools 9, the current version. It's obviously the same application. New features were carefully implemented into the existing product. Not just shoved in.
Look at a picture of Cakewalk's flagship product at that time, Pro Audio 9. Compare that to any version of Sonar. Then Sonar to X1. A lot of those changes were for the better. But a lot of things were also piled up until the box was full.
Whether it's because the product reached it's end of life, the basic fact remains. What you learned in Pro Audio 9 is no longer valid for the most part. And a lot of what you learned in Sonar's previous 9 incarnations is no longer valid either.
What you learned in PT5 is most likely still there, and then some.
One approaches its software like a tool used by engineers all over the world, with a respect for its legacy and consideration for the fact that time is money. The other constantly re-invent itself to attract new customers. And I guess it's okay.
I've compared it to being like a burger flipper at MacDonald's. There is one way to make a MacDonalds cheeseburger and every grill man is taught the same steps in the same order to assemble 6 components. You could take me (a high school kid) and plunk me behind the grill at a store across town or one across the country and I would fit into the four man crew in any position and we'd work like clockwork. That's what's nice about a limited way of doing things and a limited amount of customization and a lot of standardization. In a project studio world it doesn't matter until you come over to work at my place and I've changed all the key bindings to my own definitions. I ran into this fairly quickly when I started teaching a few folks SONAR and I would quickly hit a few keystrokes and things would happen on the screen and I'd get "What was that you just did?" But they couldn't repeat it at home unless they set up their customization the same as I did.
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jbow
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 21:42:46
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I like the changes in X1 and what I think, though it is only my theory, is that Cakewalk has decided to rebuild nt from the foundation up, but to also rebuild the foundation. I think in the future X1 and X2 and whatever is built on this new foundation is going to really be something good. I believe X1 is simply the first step, which... may seem to some like a step backward but now we are going to be stepping forward more, better, and faster.
Yes, I see the glass as half full but I also think that it will soon be fuller.
I hope...
Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Fog
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/20 22:50:00
(permalink)
dano.. I have an atari ST + c-lab + ORIGINAL ST monitor if you wanna go back ? what you mean no!?! thats vintage seriously, the whole blah blah "interface" blah blah blah "good old days" blah blah blah "when I was a lad" blah blah "I could go out and it would cost $1 and I'd still have change" blah blah.. thats what it seems like, as a few go on about it. it's not changing back, so it's wasted effort to keep griping on about it months after the event. put it into watching videos about how to use the new interface , or Scott's book etc.
post edited by Fog - 2011/10/20 23:09:22
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 03:09:22
(permalink)
Now I'm confused, is the OP saying we don't want customization? 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 03:10:50
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Now I'm confused, is the OP saying we don't want customization? Is it me or is the forum going through one of its S--l---o---w fits this morning. I'm getting a 500 error every other post.
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chilldanny
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 06:44:57
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I see it simply like this:
If you want to be standard, use the standard.
If you want to be non-standard, don't use the standard.
I applaude Avid for keeping the same workflow, it means that if you've booked
a studio that uses PT (and they pretty much ALL do) you can be up and running
incredibly quickly no matter which version of the program they have.
A real time and money saver, in an industry where time is money.
However, thankfully, Sonar isn't the standard and therefore I applaude any attempt
to improve workflow. Any new idea, good or bad, can only lead to more innovation.
And innovation is something that Sonar is good for.
It's just that innovation is a bit buggy at times is all lol
Anyway, to the OP.
Try not to fear the change, see it as a chance to grow =)
And if you are shopping for a new DAW ProTools would be a very good start.
Learn the workflow there (which isn't hard) and you'll be back to Sonar in no time.
Standard vs Innovation....I know where I fit in =)
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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trimph1
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 06:57:01
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FastBikerBoy
Now I'm confused, is the OP saying we don't want customization?
Is it me or is the forum going through one of its S--l---o---w fits this morning. I'm getting a 500 error every other post.
It has been doing some strange things here too. As for the customization thing...I's be still asking for it... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 06:57:54
(permalink)
If memory serves me right, when Cakewalk conducted a survey amongst registered users a couple of years ago, the overwhelming consensus at the time was along the lines of "please, we don't want any more plugins, we want the User Interface overhauled with a less cluttered screen"
The Bakers listened to that and implemented it. Now all we hear is whining about that decision.
Goes to show that you can please some of the people some of the time.......
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 07:11:12
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Paul Russell
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 07:15:58
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Yay! ProTools 10. Still not 64 bit. Still stuck in 2Gb of RAM space.
Laughable.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 07:17:46
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Paul Russell
Yay! ProTools 10. Still not 64 bit. Still stuck in 2Gb of RAM space.
Laughable.
And audio 'regions' are now called audio 'clips'! Now where have I seen that before 
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ProjectM
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 07:28:59
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Wow! When did PT9 come out? Like, 3 months ago? Glad to see they still maintain the track restrictions in PT - gives me the final say in any DAW discussion with Pro Toolers ... still a pretty decent amount of tracks and aux'es tho... The bigest improvement must be support for NAS. Does Sonar do that?
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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Splat
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 07:39:21
(permalink)
> Mighty touchy about it huh ? Lots of justification in your post.
Er yes (about the justification) - that's how you justify things. I notice none of my points were even considered or responded to..... You assumed I was touchy for some reason, nope I just say it as I see it. So I'll simply jump to my own conclusion then about your (non) response to any of the points I wrote (I suggest getting out of jail for free again by calling it buggy again without even stating the exact version of Cakewalk you are using or the bugs you see). ... two can play this game :).
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2011/10/21 16:03:31
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 08:33:24
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Bristol_Jonesey
If memory serves me right, when Cakewalk conducted a survey amongst registered users a couple of years ago, the overwhelming consensus at the time was along the lines of "please, we don't want any more plugins, we want the User Interface overhauled with a less cluttered screen"
The Bakers listened to that and implemented it. Now all we hear is whining about that decision.
Goes to show that you can please some of the people some of the time.......
I remember that survey. So, I'm wondering how we ended up with a bunch more plugins* and butcher job on the gui. :-( *
PC4k compressor
PC76 compressor
PC EQ vintage
PC EQ Modern
PC EQ pure
PC Saturator
PC Soft Tube knob
PC4k Gate. Those are just the plug ins I don't use that came with SONAR X1. There's a bunch more I don't use that came with 8 and 8.5. I was sort of hoping that Cakewalk would remove the cheesy drop shadows on the 8.5 gui... it would have instantly looked cleaner and less cluttered. Simple. We heard about how hard it would have been to do that, yet we see that two enterprising fellows with a few soft tools have easily found the bitmaps in X1 and can replace them at will. So, in fact, SONAR's GUI could have easily been cleaned up with a few hours of work... at any time over the past 8 years. Of course, in previous versions, everyone had the option to populate the control bar with just the things they were interested in. The bar would cleverly shrink or expand to suit each person's needs. There was nothing confusing about that. Even better, you could place the modules in a layout that prioritized your specific interests. That's a whole lot different than searching out that the missing PRV snap module learning that it got shoved over on the far right margin after Cakewalk found it in the trash can and coded it back in to the program. Take it or leave it. The point is; The gui should have had all the extraneous visual noise removed BEFORE important function commands were removed from the primary display screen. Reducing the instant access to commands and state indicators should have been the very last thing to attempt. What we got with the Sonar X1 gui is a new fashion statement with extremely adversarial graphics and a lot of blank space that serves to divert attention from the fact that the hi contrast black and neon blue color scheme is no less busy and even more visually fatiguing than the previous faux 3d shadows. This goes to show you that survey results are not a replacement for effective leadership. SONAR needs some loving attention and commitment. If I were Avid (or any other competitor) I'd run an ad campaign that said something like:
"Try our DAW... where 1 click is still faster because it is actually 2 less clicks than 3 clicks" It might not make sense to everyone.... but some of us would understand exactly what that means. :-) all the best, mike
edited some spelling and got carried away fixing bad sentences too.
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/10/21 10:04:52
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Rain
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 09:13:14
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Rain
It's also the reason why development often seems slower than with other DAWs, particularly Sonar. I guess I may have to take that back, uh? Avid seems to be pumping out (less than substantial) upgrades quicker than anyone in the biz these days. And this new upgrade is anything but affordable. :s 32 bit Floating Point, Clip based automation... What's next? No, no, not freeze; not before another 4 or 5 years. ;) Funny how when a company fails to implement certain common features, they'll often justify themselves by saying that it isn't soooooo essential and that the benefits are marginal, but when they finally include it, it becomes an integral part of their sales pitch.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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chilldanny
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 15:21:08
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Like I said, standard lol
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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pianodano
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 16:47:52
(permalink)
CakeAlexS
> Mighty touchy about it huh ? Lots of justification in your post.
Er yes (about the justification) - that's how you justify things. I notice none of my points were even considered or responded to.....
You assumed I was touchy for some reason, nope I just say it as I see it. So I'll simply jump to my own conclusion then about your (non) response to any of the points I wrote (I suggest getting out of jail for free again by calling it buggy again without even stating the exact version of Cakewalk you are using or the bugs you see). ... two can play this game :).
I can see that you're kind of new around here so maybe it's not obvious to you precisely what version I'm using. See sig. If you want to see about bugs, do a search on old pianodano since about 2004. Jeez. Another newbie fanboi.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 16:50:55
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i have to disagree with the idea that sonar has not kept a certain set p for many many vesrions. xpanded changed the layout and some love it and some hate it. i love it and for me it isnt far from the previous versions.
i have set up keybinds so most things work the same as before.
i think x1 marked a great overhaul with sonar that will continue being improved.
remember when logic was done completely over for mac? people are loving it...
lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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pianodano
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 16:51:24
(permalink)
Fog
dano.. I have an atari ST + c-lab + ORIGINAL ST monitor if you wanna go back ? what you mean no!?! thats vintage
seriously, the whole blah blah "interface" blah blah blah "good old days" blah blah blah "when I was a lad" blah blah "I could go out and it would cost $1 and I'd still have change" blah blah.. thats what it seems like, as a few go on about it.
it's not changing back, so it's wasted effort to keep griping on about it months after the event. put it into watching videos about how to use the new interface , or Scott's book etc.
Now why does everyone want to get so pithy just because I asked if you'd seen the add stating PT maintains consistent workflow ?
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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Rain
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 17:02:48
(permalink)
Lanceindastudio
remember when logic was done completely over for mac? people are loving it...
lance
I sort of missed the transition. I've used it up 'til 5.5 on the PC and went back to it for version 9 on Mac. People are loving it now, but there were admittedly a few pretty rough spots in the transition, so have I heard. All in all, though - and maybe people will say the same thing about Sonar a few years from now - the changes were for the better, as they greatly simplified it. That being said, I was up and running in minutes, even if I hadn't used it in years. It was just more intuitive than the older versions. I think some of the dissatisfaction with Sonar has a lot to do with certain long standing issues that can't seem to get addressed (see gapping audio engine) while Cakewalk puts a lot of resource on new plug-ins and the GUI. Had they come up w/ a rock solid audio engine and core application, some people would probably be more forgiving. Priorities.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 17:20:31
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gapless engine is on my top wishes too totally.
i actually wish sonar would be completely be re written with new method of coding.
i bet they could really make it shine but it would take a long time to implement all the capabiities into the new one.
i bet they make it gapless like ableton live in the process
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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stratman70
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 17:56:48
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Yes and that is your opinion Mike. I like the interface and so do many others. AM I thrilled about having to learn and find things? no, not really-but I have made my choice and so have most others. I am learning my way around and guess what? It's not rocket science Mike.
To you it's all negative. You are a perfect subject for Fogs statement above.
Speaking only for "myself", The only thing you change with your constant negative crap is how I feel about you. I seriously doubt I am alone in that feeling. And I don't like to feel negative. But you make it impossible to feel any other way.
You know you are only annoying the folks that are trying to deal with the new X1 and make it work.
Fog said it better but-It is what it is Mike, Give it a rest already.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:See the advertisement on page 357 of lthe latest Sweetwater catalog ?
2011/10/21 21:40:06
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Yes, exactly... what I have written is my opinion.
I paid for my X1E update but I'm hoping Cakewalk changes the GUI layout again and creates an even newer layout that will, ironically, look a lot like the 8.5 layout.
I hope Cakewalk does it real soon too.
best regards,
mike
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