Helpful ReplySeeking Strum

Author
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
2010/08/13 18:19:33 (permalink)

Seeking Strum

Hi,

    I'm still finding my way around Home Studio Seven. I am only making music through the staff view or the piano roll by entering notes or beats. Haven't tried pressing the 'Record' button and inputting from the keyboard . I would like to know if there is a quick way to make chords 'roll up' or strum like you would on the guitar. I looked at the Help files, but maybe I'm not using the right words to search. I looked at Cakewalk's Arppegiator, but I only want one one repetition. I hoping I can do it from the staff or piano roll without having to select each note and moving its start point.

Thanks in advance,

Steve McDonald
#1
Slugbaby
Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4172
  • Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/13 19:52:55 (permalink)
I think you'll be stuck doing it by hand unless you pick up some MIDI loops meant for guitar.
The problem that I can see is that there are too many strum variations available - 6 strings vs. 12, up vs. down, all strings or just a few...
i've never heard of a CAL or shortcut.

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
#2
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/13 22:31:57 (permalink)
Thanks for your response.

    To be a little more specific. I've only been using triads or at most four note chords for keyboards although I've got one track of TTS -1 Acoustic Guitar (six strings) that I would like strumming. For now the movement would be in one direction, low to high.

    If I'm doing a four chord progression, that's 4 x 3 adjustments that seems like a lot of work, but if that's what it takes.
#3
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/13 22:42:38 (permalink)
Try doing them on the keyboard.  I don't play guitar, and I'm sure it wouldn't sound completely convincing to a guitarist, but you could try it.  I assume you play keys?  If so, why not try an extremely fast arpeggio for each chord, hitting C, E, G, C, for a C chord, for instance.  There's probably another name for it...it would be more like 3 grace notes before the last C.

Is that what you mean?
#4
RobertB
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 11256
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
  • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/14 00:22:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Steve, you can do it in the PRV. You will have to move the start points of each note, but it's not as tedious as it might seem.
I just set up some reasonably convincing strums in a matter of minutes. Of course, familiarity helps, but you'll get there.
When you strum a guitar, you get the obvious timing difference in the individual notes. You also generally play the notes toward the end of the strum slightly louder.
The key to working with MIDI is to really listen to how the real instrument behaves, and use the tools at your disposal to duplicate that.
This reads much more complicated than it actually is. Just run with it, and you'll be fine.
Open PRV.
Zoom in so you can see one measure.
Set Snap To Grid to Absolute Time.
Select the Draw tool.
Draw your notes in at the first beat.
Now, change to the Select tool.
Drag the notes to the right as you progress through the strum (low to high) roughly 1/8" each. Your total strum will probably be slightly longer that a 32nd note, give or take.
As you do this, notice that the velocity view at the bottom of your screen shows several lines of equal length.
Switch back to the Draw tool, and draw a sharply rising curve over the lines, starting at about 40.
Now switch back to Select, and highlight the notes you just drew.
Copy, and paste as needed. You might want to change Snap To Grid to a  more precise increment at this time.
Repeat for each new chord.
Now, switch to the Track View.
Once you have a pattern established, you can highlight the track, and bounce to clip.
Then, right click in the track and enable Groove Clip Looping if you want. You can drag the pattern out to repeat as many times as needed.
hth

My Soundclick Page
SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
#5
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/14 07:54:24 (permalink)
To Robert B

    Thank you very much. I will follow your instructions and hopefully create the effect I'm looking for. I will report back after my next session. (Soon, I hope!)

To Janet

    Thanks for your response. I am a keyboard player. What are the words I'm lookig for in piano speak when you see the glissando symbol not diagonal but vertical to the left of the chord notes on the staff. To quote " to be played as an a arpeggio  - that is, not sounded together as a solid chord, but following each other quickly, starting with the bottom note."
#6
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/14 09:03:02 (permalink)
Actually, I think that sign is called arpeggio.  I had forgotten that though. :-)
#7
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/14 23:30:46 (permalink)
To Robert B

    Your instructions for dragging the notes were exactly what I was looking for. I was using half notes so the 1/8" about a 1/32 note total gives me the sound I'm looking for. The velocity part, I'm not getting. #1. I'm using Home Studio 7. When I use the Draw Tool in the PRV view I am adding notes to the grid and not "draw a sharply rising curve." Can you help me with what I'm missing if you've got the time. I guess I could right click on each note, and alter the velocity in the Notes Properties box, but you're method sounds intriguing. I'm good with the cutting and pasting.
   
    Thanks for a very helpful tutorial

To Janet

    Your right it is arpeggio, I looked it up. I intuitively think of arpeggios in longer lines.

#8
RobertB
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 11256
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
  • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 01:43:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Good deal.
In the PRV, find the icon for Use Controller Pane, and turn that on.
You should see a second panel, below the note part of the PRV, dedicated to velocity.
For this scenario, I am working with MC5, which is derived from SHS7, so you should see the same thing.
I can post some screen shots later if it will help.

My Soundclick Page
SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
#9
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 07:23:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
About arpeggio:  yeah me too. :-)

You can change the velocity of several notes at a time.  (and btw, learn to use the keyboard shortcuts S: select, D: draw and E: erase if you haven't already.  It will save you hours if you're using PRV much.  Anyway, select them all, then you can raise or lower all the velocities at once.  (or lengthen or shorten them all, move them all up or down, back and forth, etc.) 

And the controller pane is your friend, too, as Bob says. 
#10
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 09:18:40 (permalink)
Thank you Robert B and Janet

    I'm using the Controller Pane and the Keyboard Shortcuts and life in PRV is good!

    Just wondering. If I'm using whole notes (4:000) and I'm dragging to the right I will be leaving a small portion of that note  in the next measure, and in theory crushing the first note of the next measure. I can't hear this due to the decay of the sound, and so far it hasn't changed the positions of the notes in the staff view. Is there a quick way to trim the notes in PRV? I'm thinking click and drag. Or is this a little too obsessive/compulsive?
#11
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 13:32:27 (permalink)
Select them all and you can shorten them all at once.  (S to select (or ctrl A), the D to drag. 
#12
SteveStrummerUK
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31112
  • Joined: 2006/10/28 10:53:48
  • Location: Worcester, England.
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 15:51:28 (permalink)
 
Someone looking for me
 
 
 
 

 Music:     The Coffee House BandVeRy MeTaL

#13
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 15:52:15 (permalink)
Sure am.  Where ya been?  lol
#14
planetearth
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 763
  • Joined: 2004/12/26 14:22:32
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 17:20:18 (permalink)
There is a CAL that simulates "strumming" for chords. It offsets each note by however many ticks you choose, IIRC. It's similar to what you're doing here manually.

Unfortunately, Cakewalk has removed CAL support from SONAR HS 7, from what I understand. (Apparently, they put it back into SONAR 8 Studio and Producer.) So, while this won't help everyone, maybe it'll help someone.

Thanks for the tips on how to get around in PRV, Janet and Robert. Very helpful!

SONAR Platinum ▪ NI Komplete, Korg DLC, Arturia V5 Collection, Dimension Pro, IK Multimedia & other synths ▪ Les Paul, Peavey and Yamaha guitars. Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife . Comments from other SONAR users are always welcome!
#15
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/15 17:25:01 (permalink)
You're welcome.  I imagine I've spent about 1000 hours messing around in prv in the last couple of years.  I was so glad I finally took time to figure out the keyboard shortcuts!
#16
RobertB
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 11256
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
  • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/16 00:56:42 (permalink)
SteveStrummerUK


 
Someone looking for me
 
 
 
 


LOL, Steve. That was my first thought.

My Soundclick Page
SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
#17
RobertB
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 11256
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
  • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/16 00:58:29 (permalink)
smcdonald


If I'm using whole notes (4:000) and I'm dragging to the right I will be leaving a small portion of that note  in the next measure, and in theory crushing the first note of the next measure.

Don't worry too much about that. The new note will start at its designated time.
Depending on the synth and patch, the previous note will either decay naturally, or be truncated by the new note.  The strings on a guitar tend to ring after the fact(especially open strings in a chord), so a bit of overlap lends itself nicely to a more authentic sound.
Glad to help. This is fun stuff, isn't it?


post edited by RobertB - 2010/08/16 01:12:42

My Soundclick Page
SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
#18
smcdonald
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2009/04/28 17:51:30
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/16 07:01:02 (permalink)
Thanks to all,

    I have really taken a giant step forward in editing in PRV. I've used these techniques in a project I'm working on to enhance the sound of an acoustic piano and Spanish style guitar, basically adding some drama to some quiet passages. Couldn't have done it without you!   Now the really hard part, trying to find some interesting notes and progressions for the rest of the piece.
#19
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8094
  • Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
  • Location: Missouri
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/16 07:31:59 (permalink)
Ha ha...Yes, the work never ends.  But finding interesting notes is the fun part. :-)
#20
bdickens
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 847
  • Joined: 2007/09/13 18:14:13
  • Location: Hockley, TX
  • Status: offline
Re:Seeking Strum 2010/08/16 12:17:07 (permalink)
And don't forget that you will need to voice your chords the same way they are on a guitar ot it will not be convincing in the least.

If you want to take some of the drudgery out of it:

http://www.sweetwater.com/c707--Applied_Acoustics--Virtual_Instruments_Guitar_and_Bass

http://www.sweetwater.com/c707--Vir2--Virtual_Instruments_Guitar_and_Bass

Byron Dickens
#21
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1