Helpful ReplySelection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them

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Kylotan
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2015/01/14 07:17:08 (permalink)

Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them

If I am careful to select just one clip, that clip is selected correctly. But if the lasso touches the track folder bar just above that clip, it seems to select a bunch of other clips in that same track.
 

 
It doesn't select all clips - just ones within some arbitrary set of bounds that I can't work out. Here's a different example: same project, different tracks and track folder.
 

 
As you can imagine, this makes a lot of selection tasks very difficult, and the act of cutting out an section of a song (eg. a verse or a chorus) almost impossible. The only way to do it is to manually select each of the clips one by one, which is ridiculous.
 
This seems completely counterintuitive and harmful to workflow - does anybody know what's going on here?

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/01/15 10:36:53 (permalink)
*bump*
 
This is really annoying and I'd love to know if anybody else sees this.

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 10:29:50 (permalink)
Anybody? Is this user error? Or a bug? It's ruining my workflow.

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WallyG
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:04:59 (permalink)
Kylotan
Anybody? Is this user error? Or a bug? It's ruining my workflow.


Kylotan,
 
Whenever I select clips, I use the Select tool (F6) and just touch the clip. No other clips are selected. If I want to select more then on clip, I hold CTRL and then select what clips I want.
 
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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:07:26 (permalink)
I want to be able to select a whole rectangular area of clips. Selecting them individually takes a long time.

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Anderton
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:29:55 (permalink)
I can't reproduce in Platinum or X3, assuming I understand the issue correctly (you want to select only certain clips within a track folder). I don't know how to post a video here, but here's the link to an unlisted video on my YouTube channel (that I'll probably delete eventually to tidy up my channel):
 
http://youtu.be/fWwe3iSGCOE
 
When i select, I can't do an arbitrary rectangle as you show. Instead, the selection conforms automatically to the track size. If I continue dragging to another track, it adds that one as well. The only stipulation is that it seems to select a clip, you need to select it in its entirety - if you start selection in the middle of a clip and go to the end, it won't select that clip unless you select over the entire clip...but you knew that, I'm sure.
 
Maybe I'm just not doing the same workflow as you?

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:40:57 (permalink)
You're left-dragging to select, whereas I'm right-dragging. If I left-drag then that's annoying in a different way because that'll leave out anything I've not entirely selected - so if one of the clips I wanted happened to start outside the bounds of my selection, I have to stop and redo it.
Here's the documentation on selecting clips: http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Arranging.15.html
I'm using approach 2: "Select several clips at once - With the right mouse button, drag in a rectangular pattern that touches each clip." Obviously it has a rather liberal idea of which clips are the 'several' I might want to select.
Note that there is no documentation there for dragging with the left mouse button! This allows it an even more liberal notion, no doubt...
 
I'd be happy for it to select an entire clip even when I just touch part of it - it's the selection of seemingly-unrelated clips either side that completely stops me doing what I want to do (ie. cut and paste sections of songs) without laboriously selecting each individual clip one by one.

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brundlefly
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:42:05 (permalink)
I have encountered the basic problem when trying to select across folders, and I recall there was another thread about it some time ago. I'm not sure right offhand what the deal is with the variable selection boundaries you're seeing, but I think the bottom line is that lasso should probably be made to ignore folders, except perhaps when you're only lassoing closed folders. In your case, where you're not trying to lasso something on the other side of the folder, I think you just need to avoid touching it. The beauty of lasso is that you only need to touch things you want to include, but that naturally necessitates a certain amount of precision in making selections.
 
So I think a feature request might be in order for the general problem. And if you can't determine what's causing the variable selection boundaries when you touch a folder, that might be a bug.
 
 

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Splat
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:52:19 (permalink)
@OP - what version of Sonar please?
Thanks..

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 11:58:49 (permalink)
X3. (Original post was before Platinum was announced.)
 
It's worth adding that it's not consistent. Sometimes I can select everything as expected. And other times it selects random other clips to the sides. I can't see a pattern in why or how it does it.

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SquireBum
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 12:54:01 (permalink)
I reproduced this behavior in Platinum.
 
The problem is not with the lasso, but with folders and how the clips are split.
 
Notice in the OP's example 2 that the split between Record 22 and Record 31 is not labeled in the folder.  This means that the folder does not recognize the split even though there is a separation line showing in the folder.  When you lasso into the folder, the folder thinks the two clips are not split and selects them both.
 
Whenever you make a split with the Split tool or "S" key, the parent folder shows the split and labels the new split with the folder name.
 
Splits made with the Comp tool in take lanes, however, do not appear to label the split in the folder track and will create the reported behavior.
 
I'm not sure if this is a defect or working as intended, but hope that this clarifies that the problem lies with the folders and the method that is used for splitting clips, not the lasso.
 
Ron

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 13:22:24 (permalink)
SquireBum
Notice in the OP's example 2 that the split between Record 22 and Record 31 is not labeled in the folder.  This means that the folder does not recognize the split even though there is a separation line showing in the folder.  When you lasso into the folder, the folder thinks the two clips are not split and selects them both.

That could apply in the 2nd GIF I posted, certainly. But look at the 1st GIF - it just seems to select everything. (It didn't actually select the whole track, but it did select pretty much every part of the track that was on-screen.)
 

Whenever you make a split with the Split tool or "S" key, the parent folder shows the split and labels the new split with the folder name.
 
Splits made with the Comp tool in take lanes, however, do not appear to label the split in the folder track and will create the reported behavior.



These clips weren't generated via either splitting or comping; they are all individual recordings.

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SquireBum
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 13:41:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Kylotan 2015/02/13 13:53:58
That could apply in the 2nd GIF I posted, certainly. But look at the 1st GIF - it just seems to select everything. (It didn't actually select the whole track, but it did select pretty much every part of the track that was on-screen.)
 
When I look at the 1st GIF, the folder has no labels for any of the splits.  (I'm assuming the folder label is to the left in the undisplayed part of the GIF).  That's why most of the whole track is selected.  The key as to what gets selected in the folder is based on the labels.

 
These clips weren't generated via either splitting or comping; they are all individual recordings.
 
I did not test creating new recordings, so I can't comment on why the splits weren't labeled in the folder.
 
It appears that there is a defect or at least a design flaw in how the folders handle separate clips.
 
The important thing to determine is what conditions cause clips to appear in the folder as unlabeled.  Then I would create a problem report.
 
Ron

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Kylotan
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 13:53:45 (permalink)
Interesting point regarding the labels; I was going on the vertical black lines as separating the different areas.
 
A quick experiment seems to show that unless every clip in the folder has a split at a given time, then it counts as one 'group' for the track folder. If any one of the tracks spans that gap, then it's counted as one contiguous block. This would seem to be a deliberate choice (so you can select the whole bunch of sort-of-contiguous data with one click) but it does still screw up the lasso operation.
 
The good news is that I can probably work around this now - I will just have to make sure all the clips start and end on measure boundaries and not bother with crossfades and the like until I am finished arranging.

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SquireBum
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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/13 14:07:53 (permalink)
Glad my explanation was clear enough to understand.
 
The confusing thing is the split bars displaying, but not the labels.
 
I tried recording 2 overlapping takes in Platinum and just like your examples, I ended up with 2 separate clips, but only 1 label in the track folder.
 
Ron

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Re: Selection bug - extra clips selected even when lasso doesn't touch them 2015/02/14 00:54:28 (permalink)
I haven't read all the posts above, but I encounter this all the time when I try to copy clips in multiple tracks to a different section. And this is EXACTLY why I was considering posting a feature request to hide ONLY track folders (leaving the tracks inside still visible). 

Tak T.
 
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