DragonBlood
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Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
I was listening to my favorite audio production podcast and the income of people in the music arts came up. They talked about how there isn't a middle class, there's only the rich and the poor in music. they also, briefly, mention how there's musicians and producers who work on records but dont really get credit for their work. I would like to hear your input on this article and some of your experiences on making a living in music. Also there's a note at the bottom of this post. http://www.pro-tools-expe...-super-rich-and-t.htmlPro Tools Expert
The Taylor Swift Spotify story has been lighting up the news all week, for assorted reasons, but it has reignited the debate about the earnings of the creative community.
For many, especially those outside of the creative community, Taylor Swift is perceived as someone who has enough money already. Even worse there are many who ‘think’ (a term I use loosely) that all music should be free, By free they mean that they should not have to pay for it, not stopping to consider that making music is a costly business and music is not just created magically out of thin air by the MP3 fairy. Swift and others are regarded as the creative super rich.
At the other end of the scale are the creative poor, and I use that term correctly. Their creative efforts do not create enough income to be able to sustain them and their families. So they work one, two, three or more jobs to support the family, none of which they really love but it keeps the cash rolling in until the dream of just making money from their creative efforts becomes a reality.
The first thing to note about this scenario is that it is not new, this has been happening for decades, the idea of doing other jobs to support the creative dream has always been part of the landscape. For some it is nothing more than a dream, they lack both the talent and the work ethic to make a real living from it. But I’m not talking about them, that’s an easy cliche to peddle by those who think that the arts are just a way to avoid getting a ‘real’ job. I’m talking about those who have the talent and who work damned hard.
What the current debates about earnings, royalties, and fair rewards highlight even more than ever, is that the model of super-rich and poor is unworkable for most. Even when most creatives start to make a modest income it is unlikely to be enough to give them the security of sick pay now and pensions in their old age.
Surely what we should be striving for is the creation of a creative middle class? Don’t think 2.4 children, home in the suburbs and nice car. I simply mean the ability to provide for your family now and in the future when you can longer work - it is what most other professions have the potential to offer, but it seems less likely for those of us in the creative community. If you are reading this and are making a modest living out of your creative efforts, then you are the exception and not the rule.
As long as we concentrate on the stars in this scandal we miss the critical issue; that for most hardworking and talented professionals working in the creative industry, it is never going to provide the income they need for now and when they can no longer work, that’s the real scandal. They also did a show on the article and it can be downloaded here https://app.box.com/shared/static/bmi3z2dg5vfp8533gg4o.mp3 ( Page if the link is broken) they begin talking about it at the 7:30 mark. On a sidenote, I think we should also nominate Cakewalk for best customer service. You can see the the nominations here and you can enter them for nomination here. I hope you all would show up to support your DAW of choice. At least for what it's worth.
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spacey
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 10:00:38
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DragonBlood
some of your experiences on making a living in music.
the critical issue; that for most hardworking and talented professionals working in the creative industry, it is never going to provide the income they need for now and when they can no longer work, that’s the real scandal. I started playing in gigging bands when I was 13 in 1968. I had been schooled for 7 yrs by that time so performing any popular music or getting bands/gigs to perform with was not an issue. The issues I started noticing immediately were the "powers to be" and "steady income / security". I knew by the time I was "on my own" I wasn't going to rely or bet on the music business or other musicians to give me "security" or taking me into retirement. Playing music was going to make me "play money" and if by some lucky shot it made me serious bucks...good. If not...oh well, no big loss as long as I could still play my guitar. Now that I'm getting very close to retirement I'm sure glad I didn't waste a lot of years dreaming and working to "make it big"....and I had a blast doing the bands and I can still play my guitar. There is a saying- "if I'd known I was going to live so long I would have taken better care of myself". That's a good one IMO and most of the working musicians I worked with sure didn't follow that bit of knowledge....of course with some it didn't matter...always stuff like planes falling out of sky and landing on ones head.
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Randy P
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 10:29:45
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There was a time in my life that I did make a living playing music. It was my only source of income. I played in bands that played 5 to 6 nights a week and my share would work out to $500 a week or more. That was decent enough back then as a single guy. Those days aren't gone, but it's a lot tougher now.
When I was in Colorado in September, my daughter took us to a club that was having live music. It was a Sunday night multi act show. It was a pretty cool scene, with a wide variety of bands and solo performers. I talked with a few of the acts after they performed and it was interesting to hear how they were making out. One act was 4 guys who were the most eclectic thing I'd seen in years. Banjo, Resonator, Upright Bass, Acoustic guitar. Resonator player/singer sat on an old suitcase that was rigged with a kick drum pedal that was mounted to kick the side of the suitcase. They were tight, with good harmonies and good showmanship and crowd interaction. These guys were all in their mid to late 20's. None had day jobs. They played clubs when they could find a gig in the Colorado Springs area during the spring, summer and fall. They busked on the street in the small artsy areas during the day. When winter came, they made their way to New Orleans and did the same thing there. They had a good merch setup, with CD's and tshirts. They utilized social media like Facebook and Twitter to build a following.
A solo act I spoke with was a singer in a metal band that's fairly well known in the west. The band had just come off a regional tour and was taking a break. He decided to hit the road in his car with his acoustic guitar and play any gig he could get. This kid was basically playing for food and gas money. He used social media to find places to play and sleep.
In both of these instances, I wouldn't call what they are doing as "making it", but they are surviving and doing what they love. They are young and aren't motivated by any real prospect of a record deal or MTV dreams, but in their heart and minds, they are successfully doing what they love.
Knowing what I know about the music business, these guys had me smiling. Not because I thought they were naive, but because they had figured out a way to make it work on their own terms and seemed genuinely happy. After we left, I couldn't help thinking that someday these guys are going to have great memories and experiences. And a serious work ethic.
Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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bapu
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 11:36:50
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I three opportunities in my life to hook up with serious musicians who were either on the rise or decline in their careers.
I do not regret the decisions to decline them.
If I had taken up the first offer chances are I would not have married my first wife, would not have had my children or the grandchildren I have.
Nor would I have had the opportunity to meet (online or in person) the wonderful people of this community.
I never had serious dreams of stardom in the music biz.
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bapu
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 11:37:30
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And I know which half of the creative poor I am.
Just look at my VST list.
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Beepster
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 14:18:44
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I could say a lot about this but have my mind focused on other chicannery at the moment but I thought I would drop a bit of advice for newly gigging musicians who could use a couple extra bucks.
Pass the hat (or more accurately empty beer jug). Seriously. Merch is great as are door fees and trying to wrangle a percentage out of the bar sales but the most (and most reliable) money I ever made when I was gigging was simply having a friend wandering around the bar once or twice a set with a jug collecting change for the band. Everyone is having a good time, perhaps a little tipsy and likely have some pocket change or small bills. They are there to see you and even if the venue operators don't appreciate the effort that you've put in the audience generally will. They may not want a shirt or already have your CD or simply don't want to drop $20 (because you know... that could go for beer) but a few bucks is no biggie. Obviously if you just charged them $20 to get in the door then this practice is a little rude and some bar owners might get pissy (in which case I would get a little pissy back because those jerks make a fortune off aspiring musicians) so using good judgment and respect is in order (and you have to make sure your collector isn't a dillhole because that doesn't fly) but for cheap, pay what you can or free shows you'll get some cash. Usually a lot more than you will from the bar or door (which you'll usually have to split with other bands/promoters/etc) or merch sales which have high overhead, may not sell or you simply may not have merch.
So yeah... get out that hat. If you are doing a decent job at keeping folks entertained you'll get some dough for pizza slices, cab fare, gas, which is really nice considering how costly being a musicologist can be.
Peace.
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Starise
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 14:23:43
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Most of the people who are making money in the "arts" are working at it and aren't revealing much of anything they might have learned along the way. If you happen to make good connections and find productive ways to prosper you're not likely to go around telling everyone else how to do it. I think it's a matter of them hooking up and finding the right connections and working hard at it. There are "how to" books on almost everything I guess. But I think the main catalyst for future success will be applying creativity to the ideas for success.
My mentality has usually been to do something with 5% discussion and 95% activity. I'm not discarding relevant productive discussion.But it's the doers and not the talkers who are getting it done.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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Rain
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 15:23:29
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Compared to how things were in Canada, I wouldn't say that there is no longer a middle class here in the US, not yet, anyway. And the change isn't exclusive to arts and music.
I have no doubt that times are tougher though. That being said, I can tell you first hand that there's still some people earning a decent living making music and performing. For the past few years, we've lived on my wife's income because I couldn't legally work in the US. We're not rich, but we're not poor either.
Rewind a couple of years, back in Canada, I was the one providing. In spite of the gold and platinum records on the walls and all the awards, my wife had to go back to school and work gigs which had nothing to do with music because there was no money to be made. And her case was not an exception.
I'm sure that the situation has degraded here. But whether it's the guys playing 5 nights a week for Phantom of the Opera or The Book of Mormon on Broadway, or the fellows traveling with Cirque, or people writing music for them and their assistants... None of those fellows are rich, but they earn a proper living.
Maybe I'm a bit more positive about it because of where I come from. Back in my little hometown in French Canada, growing up, there was not even a notion of anything such as a musical middle class. The only options were to hit the big time - the chances of which were of the order of 0,00000000000001% - or to land THE gig as a music teacher.
In both cases, you had to be ready to move to where the opportunities were. And I'm guessing that that principle is universal, though fewer and fewer actually get their chance.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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soens
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 18:15:43
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Seriously?! A serious post in the CH? Now that's funny.  But seriously, I have to disagree that there's no middle class. I know of at least one who makes a fair living in the music business. He was part of a 60's folk group that eventually broke up, but he went on to reinvent himself outside the mainstream and says he does quite well. He has a mission and a purpose. He stays busy. He's on the road a lot. And though he'll never be on radio or TV or make millions, he makes more money than I'll ever hope to. (OK so my income is poverty level, but that's beside the point). I know there are others doing similar things. America seems to have the mentality that if you're in the music business you're either struggling to make it big or you're already there and there is no in-between. Well, there is. They go on without fanfare, glamor, or any of the trappings we associate with music because they're not out to make it big. They're happy where they are, so no one knows about them.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/19 19:07:39
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"the music business' covers a lot of ground so the music business probably has as much of a middle class as any other segment of society.
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/20 09:07:35
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Many people enter the music biz dreaming of success. Instead, I set out to fail.
Unfortunately, I succeeded.
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DragonBlood
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/20 21:41:41
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UbiquitousBubba
Many people enter the music biz dreaming of success. Instead, I set out to fail.
Unfortunately, I succeeded.
Describe your definition of success.
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craigb
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/21 04:56:50
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☄ Helpfulby DragonBlood 2014/11/21 17:58:32
DragonBlood
UbiquitousBubba
Many people enter the music biz dreaming of success. Instead, I set out to fail.
Unfortunately, I succeeded.
Describe your definition of success.
He succeeded in failing.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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spacey
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/21 07:01:10
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"As long as we concentrate on the stars in this scandal we miss the critical issue; that for most hardworking and talented professionals working in the creative industry, it is never going to provide the income they need for now and when they can no longer work, that’s the real scandal."
That's wrong. It's not a scandal. Anybody that can add and subtract and working in any field should know whether or not they are making enough money to meet their needs/goals.
It's not a scandal when there is a person that refuses to work a job that doesn't pay enough, provide a steady paycheck nor provide security for their family and future.
It's simply the way things work...there is somebody that will take that job.
If nobody would do any of the jobs in music that didn't provide one with a steady paycheck, insurance and retirement plans then things would be different.
I know that isn't rocket science or if it is I could have been working for NASA when I was a teenager. Hell, the term "starving artist" was here and known about long before I was born.
Some people spend their life learning an instrument, performing or not and making good money messing around in the music world while holding down a job in a profession that does provide for their security needs and future.
It's simply a choice.
I chose to enjoy music/guitar along with other professions that provided all my needs that the music world didn't and I'm very glad I was lucky or smart enough to do so.
And the statement I put in bold- "it is never going to provide"....well doesn't that say it all?
Unlike the "performer" that may stand a chance of "making it big" there are many jobs in the field that it is plain as day it's a dead-end job and one does it part time for the fun of it....unless they're friggin stoooopid or sumpkin.
So somebody wants to break it all down to income "classes"? BS. Break it down to what it is...it's a fun art with many fields that takes a lot of work with a possibility if you become very good and/or loved by the masses you may get a big monetary return. Maybe. Some gamble very big on a "maybe" -out of ignorance or just to have fun.
Well that's how I've seen it since 1968 and got my first "paycheck"....in one dollar bills.
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bitflipper
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Re: Serious talk, the Creative Super Rich vs the Creative Poor
2014/11/21 12:45:54
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2014/11/21 14:23:01
I made a hundred bucks last weekend plus $40 in tips. That bought:
- a $25 Wal-Mart walkie-talkie so my wife can call me in from the studio if she needs help
- a $10 mouse with working buttons to replace one that's been busted for over a year
- a $25 co-pay for a doctor's visit
- $5 in parking for said doctor visit
- $10 gas to go to said doctor visit
- a $16 case of instant breakfast goop for when my wife can't swallow solid food
- $50 worth of laxatives and Pediasure for my upcoming "procedure"
All money that would have otherwise come from the grocery budget. But best of all, for a few hours I got out and had some fun.
Then I think back to when I did make my living as a full-time musician.
In those days I had no health insurance at all. When I got an ear infection from a hotel swimming pool I had to pay half a week's wages to see a doctor. When our PA amp blew up, I had to buy a new one out of the money I'd set aside for quarterly taxes and then spent the next 6 months paying it back, plus penalties and interest. I got sued by my booking agent for unpaid commissions on cancelled gigs (always read the fine print on those contracts!). I performed major surgery on my van's engine in more than one motel parking lot because I couldn't afford to take it to a garage. My tools, my kitchen utensils, and most of our clothes came from Goodwill. When my entire family was run over by a truck, we had no choice but to sue the remorseful driver to pay the hospital bills, a process that took 10 years, ruined my credit and made me stop answering the phone for a while. And the whole time I was gigging I had chronic tonsillitis but couldn't possibly afford a tonsillectomy.
When I'd finally had enough, I took a day job. It was a rough adjustment, and I wasn't happy about it. It was actually a cut in pay. But after 6 months they granted me health insurance and the first thing I did was have my tonsils removed. My singing voice never came back after that, but the incessant sore throats and hacking up goo stopped.
I gradually came to appreciate a life off the road. I could wash my clothes without leaving the house or gathering up change. I could have hobbies again. I could help the kids with their homework and attend their games and recitals. I didn't have to deal with agents, sleazy club owners or drunks. No more all-night drives through snowstorms. I established credit again, and was able to buy recording gear, guitars and synthesizers. I could enjoy a sunrise without thinking I'd better get to bed soon.
Best of all, as soon as I stopped thinking about music as a means to make a living it started being fun again.
I do not regret for a minute not pursuing a career in music. I love music too much.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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