Session drummer 3 audio droputs

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LBKID101
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2014/03/17 14:49:56 (permalink)

Session drummer 3 audio droputs

Hi All
I'm having real trouble with audio dropouts on session drummer 3 used in conjunction with sonar x1. There are no dropouts anywhere else but sd3 will play a loop for a while then just start randomly dropping notes. Every forum ive seen on this has suggested to up the midi playback buffer but this has made no difference to my playback. Out of ideas and desperate. Thanks LB
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 15:13:30 (permalink)
    What audio interface, and how high a buffer have you tried? 500ms should do trick in most cases, but some systems have been known to need 600 or more.
     
    Also, are you talking about playing patterns within SD3 or looping a MIDI track? There's an issue with dropped MIDI notes when loop-recording with Input Quantizing enabled, but you did't mention recording so I gather that's not applicable here.

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    LBKID101
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 15:54:17 (permalink)
    Hi
     
    My interface is a roland quad capture. Defualt setting was at 500. I've tried increasing up and up but with no success. Just playing back simple programed loops from sd3 step sequencer.
     
    Thanks
     
    LB
    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 16:08:12 (permalink)
    Is the setting of 500 the setting for the ASIO Buffer Size?  Please clarify.
     
     
    *Edited as I just saw it was a playback thing, rather than a recording thing.
     
    Do you have any plugins loaded into this project?  If so, please list them.
     
    The following may or may not apply to your situation, but can you please supply the following information?
     
    From the audio interface: Sample Rate, ASIO Buffer Size
     
    From Sonar: Driver Mode, Sample Rate, Total Roundtrip Latency, Record Bit-Depth
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 16:28:07 (permalink)
    I only asked about the audio interface to make sure we're not dealing with Realtek-quality environment. It really should not be relevant to this issue otherwise, assuming audio playback and recording are working without issue.
     
    If you Bounce to Clips a copy of the SS clip back to regular MIDI, does the issue go away?
     
     
     

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    LBKID101
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 16:52:20 (permalink)
    Hi Bob
     
    There are no plug ins at all loaded into the project at this stage.
    Driver mode is ASIO/ Sample rate= 4410 / Round latency 28.9 ms / Bit depth 24
     
    I'm not quite sure where to find the info for the audio interface sample rate and buffer size. The midi play back buffer is at 500. Taking it higher has not helped.
     
    Many Thanks
     
    LB
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    LBKID101
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:04:26 (permalink)
    Tried that no joy unfortunately. I've just programed in new sequence and that's playing fine. drop outs tend to start as soon as you start making any adjustments like adding a cymbal. It will suddenly start droping a snare note or a hi hat note at complete random
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:10:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for posting the info.
     
    To get the Sample Rate and ASIO Buffer Size information from your audio interface, you should be able to access it in one of two methods that the vendors provide for getting at the interface control panel screen.
     
    Some interfaces get at their UI by responding when you go into Sonar>Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings, and then click on the ASIO Control Panel button.
     
    IF that doesn't work, do not despair, as it just means the UI doesn't respond to that button, and you will then use the other method instead.
     
    The other method is to look in your Windows System Tray, which is at the bottom right corner of your Windows Deskop - where your volume, internet connection, and system messages icons are all located (and usually your antivirus program, if you are running one).
     
    Anyways, in the System Tray, you should see an icon for your audio interface UI.  If it is not showing (hover your mouse over the various icons and each should display what it is), you may have to click on the arrow down there, which will then display any hidden icons.  You sometimes only need click once to open the interface UI, but may need to double-click on it to open it.
     
    Once you get into the audio interface UI, using one of the above methods, you should be able to display and change your various interface settings, such as its Sample Rate and ASIO Buffer Size.
     
    Please note that some interfaces call it ASIO Buffer Size, and some have sliders with a numbered scale, and some others use the term 'number of samples', and there may be others.  In any case, they all serve the same function - to tell the interface how big of a buffer for processing data.
     
    My Presonus Audiobox 1818 VSL uses ASIO Buffer Size, and I have mine set to 128, which then shows up in Sonar as Input Samples and Output Samples - you can see my settings values at the bottom of this post, in my signature.
     
    For recording and simple playback prior to beginning the mixing/mastering processing, I try to shoot for a Sonar Total Roundtrip Latency reported value of around 10 milliseconds or just a little less.
     
    Once you get into mixing/mastering, and add effects that add lots of latency, you will want to bump up your ASIO Buffer Size to perhaps 1024, or even higher, to be able to handle things like 'look-ahead processing' (Boost 11 is one such effect).
     
    I hope that helps explain how to get to those audio interface parameters and values.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #8
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:15:56 (permalink)
    I looked at some other threads, and saw a couple that had very similar problems, and one was fixed by bumping up the Midi Playback Buffer Size to 500, but the other one never posted a solution.
     
    I will continue to check for other threads where maybe there is something else going on with some solution or work around for you.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #9
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:19:32 (permalink)
    Is there a chance you have ASIO4ALL installed on your computer?
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:31:16 (permalink)
    As Bob said (somewhere in there... ):
     
    Edit > Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings > ASIO Control Panel button.
     
    Try setting buffer at 128 samples to start. This will significantly reduce input monitoring latency and give you snappier transport performance if nothing else.

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    LBKID101
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 17:59:55 (permalink)
    Hi Bob
     
    Thanks for explaining that.  I Didn't know you could access the interface settings like that. Sample rate is 44.1 asio buffer is 256.
     
    Ive had a good look at your settings and now you've explained where to find everything im going to experiment with changes. Thanks for your help and explaining clearly. I#ll let you know how I get on.
     
    Much Appreciated
     
    LB
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 18:52:31 (permalink)
    RTL of 28.9ms is very high for a 256-sample buffer. The buffers themselves would only account for 512/44.1 = 11.6ms of the total, and a good USB interface shouldn't add more than 3-4 ms to that. That suggests a lot of hidden latency somewhere - maybe an issue with your USB hub/drivers. You might try removing some other USB devices and/or moving the QuadCapture to a different port.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Session drummer 3 audio droputs 2014/03/17 20:00:09 (permalink)
    Well, let's see how the 128 setting works.
     
    There could well be one or more things running that could be contributing to dropout issues.  A BIG culprit is a Wi-Fi adapter, and other causes include things like the extra software they give you when you buy a pre-loaded computer from the store, or sometimes an antivirus program, etc....
     
    So, if changing to 128 doesn't make things better, download and run either or both of the following 2 programs, and run it for a few minutes, or if you downloaded both, run each one 1 at a time for a few minutes:
     
    1.  DPC Latency Check (note, this does not report accurate times in Win 8, but does in Win 7).  This can be downloaded from: 
     
    http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
     
    2.  LatencyMON - works good in both Win 7 and Win 8, and can be downloaded from:
     
    http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
     
    The above programs will gather data on your system's basic ability to handle audio streaming tasks, such as what Sonar does.  You would download and run either for a few minutes.  DPC Latency Checker tells you right away if things are OK or a problem, and for LatencyMon, you View Report (might be results, can't remember which).
     
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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