Helpful ReplySession drummer 3

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Agentcalm
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2013/10/27 18:36:53 (permalink)

Session drummer 3

Howdy folks. Am i in the right area to ask about S Drummer 3?  i use Sonar X2 Studio and it comes with S Drummer2 as standard.  Is SD3 better and if so can it be bought on its own.  I see the new Sonar X3 has it built in.  Im very happy with Sonar 2  and wasn't really plannin on upgrading the whole thing for the sake of drums. 
To be honest, id stick with S Drummer 2 if i could figure something out.  Id like to try put the kick, snare and toms etc on separate tracks. This would allow me to pan them separatley or add say reverb to the snare without affecting the rest of the kit.  
thanks y'all

 Southern kin y'all 
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scook
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/27 19:13:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Agentcalm 2013/11/02 14:33:55
They are essentially the same. SD2 has 10 pads and SD3 has 12. The two additional pads break out the 2 percussion pads in SD2 into 4 in SD3. At this time SD3 is not available for sale, it is only bundled with X3. I would think the Melodyne integration and Nomad Blue Tube bundle would be bigger incentives to upgrade from X2 Studio to X3 Studio.
 
I am not familiar with SONAR Studio, it may already have multi-out templates defined for SD2. In the track view, right-click in the track strip area to bring up the menu. Look for Insert From Track Templates > Soft Synth Track Templates > Session Drummer 2. There may be predefined templates for Multi-Out Session Drummer setups.
 
If there are no templates or you just want to know how to do it yourself; here is how to create a multi-out SD2 instance:
  • When inserting SD2 into a project make sure the MIDI Source and All Synth Audio Outputs: Stereo options are selected in the Insert Soft Synth Options Dialog. I also like to check Synth Track Folder, to keep SD2 tracks in one folder, but it is not necessary.
  • Load the SD2 program, kit or drum samples.
  • Switch SD2 to the mixer view. At the bottom of each mixer strip is a track assignment dropdown. Assign each drum to a different track number. The track numbers correspond to the audio tracks created when the synth was inserted. Note: the actual track numbers may not be 1-10 but will be assigned starting with the topmost track created for the synth.
 
 
post edited by scook - 2013/10/27 20:00:42
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RobertB
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/27 22:40:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Agentcalm 2013/11/02 14:33:45
 Pretty close, Steve. SD2 actually only shows a mixer view. The numbers below the drum icons correspond to the output track. By default, they are all set to output 1. In SD2, click on the number, and use your mouse wheel to scroll through the outputs. Same idea, just a different approach between SD2 and SD3.
 
Agentcalm, if you could buy SD3 separately, it would probably be around $100.
As a registered Sonar user, you can upgrade to X3Studio for $99 until Oct 31.
I just did, and SD3 was a factor in that, among other plusses.
As Steve noted, you have essentially the same functions in both, but I like the sampled drums included with SD3 a little better. That said, I've been running SD2 & 3 side by side for some interesting textures.

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scook
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/27 22:59:10 (permalink)
Of course, you are correct. I was working from memory and blended the two Session Drummer interfaces. Sorry.  They do include different samples. I recall migrating some of my SD2 addons to SD3. I did that some time ago. Subsequently picked up the Toontrack products and have not used Session Drummer in some time. 
 
FWIW, pretty sure the upgrade prices are not going to change based on Andrew's reply in this thread http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2919884 $99 is the regular upgrade price for any SONAR user.
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Agentcalm
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 07:04:24 (permalink)
Thanks fellers. Knew i could rely on Southern hospitality on this one :) 
I'll try both the approaches to try set the channels.  I did notice alright that all the drum icons in SD are set to 1 but i didnt know about scrolling the mouse. So good tip n thanks for that.  It's kinda flaky and hard to control the number but worth a shot. Funny thing is.  There are 10 icons but i can only set outputs up to number 8.  The mouse scroll doesn't off 9 or 10.  Shouldnt be a huge problem because one of them is a cowbell which is not going to get overly used.  Something like a cowbell i can throw in seperatly for say a guitar solo.
One question on Sonar X3 Robert. I have reinstalled X2 several times now but its crashes a lot with an error  Sonar.exe not responding.  I have to use Task manager to try kill it.  I've installed latest drivers for my sound card (an M Audio usb device) and disabled the laptops onboard sound card.  But still very flaky. Have you found X3 more stable?
Thanks again guys.   Xave

 Southern kin y'all 
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scook
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 09:31:39 (permalink)
SD2 has 8 stereo outputs. SD3 has 12. If more outs are needed, run multiple instances of SD2.
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57Gregy
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 10:35:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Agentcalm 2013/11/02 14:33:29
And you can load any sample in the tam and cowbell slots; they don't have to be what the icon shows.

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scook
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 12:25:14 (permalink)
That is true, they don't even have to be drum/percussion related samples either.
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Agentcalm
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 12:40:03 (permalink)
Excellent tips guys.  Do appreciate y'alls help. 

 Southern kin y'all 
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dubdisciple
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 16:42:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Agentcalm 2013/11/02 14:33:18
Everyone already covered pretty much all you need to know about  SD2 and 3.  Some other things to consider:
 
1) You can get by just fine without having a separate output for every sound in a kit.  A fairly common configuration is to assign kick,snare,toms separate outputs and create a channel for overhead mic or room mic. If you have some percussion that has special processing needs, you still have extra outputs.
 
2) Don't be afraid to use you other Sonar plugins in conjunction with SD2. Even if you did run out of outputs, aside from the already mentioned possibility of opening up another instance of SD2, you can also open other sample based plugins like dropzone or dimension le that have a lot of drum and percussion sounds and offer more control over the sound.
 
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RobertB
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/28 21:08:23 (permalink)
Agentcalm
One question on Sonar X3 Robert. I have reinstalled X2 several times now but its crashes a lot with an error  Sonar.exe not responding.  I have to use Task manager to try kill it.  I've installed latest drivers for my sound card (an M Audio usb device) and disabled the laptops onboard sound card.  But still very flaky. Have you found X3 more stable?
Thanks again guys.   Xave




I skipped X2, so I can't reall compare it, but X3 has been stable so far. Bear in mind, I am running it on a 32 bit Vista system. Vista is not supported with X3, but the docs indicated it will run in Vista, so I tried it. There was a hiccup with the VST scanner (There is a Vista specific problem), but I found a way to fix that.
I haven't had a chance to push it much, but so far it seems to be behaving fairly well.

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Agentcalm
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/10/29 14:55:05 (permalink)
Thanks R.  Yeah if i could get the snare and kick seperated it would be great.  The toms can all sit on one track as i wouldn't be putting and effects on them.  Im not using any overhead mics as im doing this at home so only using virtual drums.  Onward n upward :)

 Southern kin y'all 
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dubdisciple
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/11/01 04:59:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Agentcalm 2013/11/02 14:29:16
Agent.  My apologies for not explaining i was not using "overhead mics" literally.  I meant you could route your virtual instruments as if they were all be recorded from overhead mics. A sample setup would be something like this:
 
Session Drummer 2 Kick routed to channel 1
Session Drummer 2 Snare routed to channel 2
Session Drummer 2 high hats routed to channel 3
Session Drummer 2 Low Tom routed to channel 4
Session Drummer 2  Mid Tom routed to channel 4
Session Drummer 2  High Tom routed to channel 4
Session Drummer 2  Crash Cymbal routed to channel 5
Session Drummer 2  Ride Cymbal routed to channel 5
That still leaves three outputs for percussion or other sounds.  You could easily assign the high hats to the same channel as the cymbals if you needed another free channel
 
Create Buss for Kick, Snare, Overhead, Drum master respectively
 
Since kicks and snares are the most likely to be reinforced with layering, the individual busses leave room for that sort of thing.  Route the other channels to overhead.  The idea here is to simulate a typical overhead mic setup but with a lot more control pre-buss than one would have if you were using actual overhead mics. having a reverb on this buss and or send from a reverb buss helps sell this. Using channel tools to control width on this buss  Route all of these busses to drum master so you can have one master fader for drums to mix with other tracks in your song.
 
Needless to say this is one of many ways to go about this.  One could also toss in a buss for parallel compression or create a buss with a convolution reverb to simulate a room mice capturing it all and then routed to drum master buss as well.
 
 
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Agentcalm
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/11/02 14:32:41 (permalink)
Hi Dub.  No,the apology i think should be on my part for mis-reading :)
Yest this is exactly what i would like to achieve with the snare to track 1 etc.  I need to read up on buses though because i am completely lost  on your section where you mention using a bus. It was always just something i used when my car wouldnt start. But thanks for the tips though, all great stuff for me to get my teeth into :)
Xave

 Southern kin y'all 
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dubdisciple
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/11/02 15:06:39 (permalink)
Agent.. learning about busses will open up a whole new world to you and give you a lot more control and flexibility.  Even the simplest of uses for a bus will make life easier for you.  Imagine if you have all your drum channels exactly the way you want, but after adding other instruments and vocals that is no longer the case.  If they are routed to a bus, you can just lift or reduce "drums" instead of individually making changes. And yes, a bus is a great way to get around when car breaks down or don't fee llike finding parking ;)
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Agentcalm
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/11/02 17:39:00 (permalink)
I'll certainly look into it Dub.
Just want to say thanks to y'all for all the above tips.  I've been messin around with SD2 this evening and have the drums on seperate tracks and havin all sorts of fun pannin' left right n center.  gettin some ol reverb goin on the snare n all. This is already makin a great difference to the song im workin on and is definatly openin up a whole new world for me.  I'll look into this bus critter Dub and see how it goes.  
So thanks again guys.  It never ceases to amaze me the great help a feller gets on this forum.  Real glad i bought sonar and didnt go for one of those free download or cheaper DAW. 

 Southern kin y'all 
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dubdisciple
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Re: Session drummer 3 2013/11/02 19:07:11 (permalink)
This is one of the more helpful forums.  Before you know it, you will be the one helping others
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