Helpful ReplySession drummer, High Hat issue

Author
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 87
  • Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
  • Status: offline
2013/11/20 05:14:25 (permalink)

Session drummer, High Hat issue

Hello all,
and thanks in advance toward anyone who would be so kind into helping me solve this issue Ive been having.
 
I own Sonar x2. I am using Session drummer.
I right click on an instrument to open up a sound file, specifically high hat. Load the high hat. Ok everything is good. Then when I hit play back I notice it only plays a closed high hat and not any open high hats. Even though the note in piano roll view display's the marker on a open high hat, It still plays a close hat. What am I not getting? Is there something im supposed to do to allow both (open hat and closed hat) to work simultaneously?
 
I apologize if this is a stupid question but I have searched forums and can not figure it out.
 
Thanks
Matthew
#1
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 08:33:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/11/21 08:44:02
If you are loading samples directly into Session Drummer, the synth with only play one sample per instrument pad. Sfz files are needed to play multiple samples.
#2
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 87
  • Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 09:49:47 (permalink)
How do I go about doing this?
#3
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 10:08:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/11/21 08:43:56
sfz files are text files. There are many examples of them supplied with Session Drummer. You could take an existing file, copy it and replace the sample file names with your own. All you need is a text editor like notepad or wordpad. The default location for the high hat sfz files is "c:\program files\cakewalk\session drummer 2\contents\kits\3 - hats" or "c:\program files\cakewalk\session drummer 3\contents\kits\3 - hats" depending on which version of Session Drummer you have. IIRC, only X2 Producer shipped with Session Drummer 3.
#4
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 87
  • Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 11:15:14 (permalink)
I did what you mentioned but only see (.Flac) files. I dont see any sfz files.
 
This all seems very confusing. Is there a way around this? Different ways or methods? Can I just upload a open hat on another track in session drummer. Could that work? Also can you have more then 12 instruments using session drummer?
 
If there is not another method, then maybe you can give me a step by step, if its not an inconvenience. Im lost.
 
Thanks.
#5
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 11:43:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/11/21 08:43:51
If you see flac files, you are one level too deep. The sfz files should be one directory above the flac files.
 
Session Drummer is an sfz engine synth. If you want to use your own samples effectively, you will need to gain some familiarity with how the synth interacts with sfz files. There are resources on the web such as http://www.cakewalk.com/D...e/article.aspx?aid=108 but in this case, reading an existing sfz file may be the easiest way to learn.
 
If you need more pads than one instance of Session Drummer provides load more instances of the synth.
 
On the other hand maybe a different tool like TX16Wx would better suit your requirements.
#6
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/20 12:21:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/11/21 08:43:46
Never been a fan of having to edit sfz files just to load my own samples but fortunately Sonar comes with a decent amount of sfz files and there are plenty of others available for those who have no desire to look at code.  On the bright side, if it is just a matter of swapping samples, altering the code is not very hard.  I would backup any sfz file I edited.
#7
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 87
  • Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/21 08:43:39 (permalink)
what is the real difference between flac and sfz. I guess the thought is surpassing me and I dont quite understand the main difference and why I cant use both. Is it that sfz files have some sort of text file code that allows multiple different sounds to be generated on one channel in session drummer. Example: open high hat, closed high hat, and peddle close on one channel at the same time. Opposed to flac files that will only have one sound on that channel. Example: just open hat, or just closed hat?
 
If this is so, then why are there so many flac files and fewer sfc files. What would be the reason of having flac anyways if people would want a combination of sounds on one channel.
 
Is it that sfc files sound better then flac?
 
All these questions, I am sorry, but I guess this is what you have to go threw when you are a newb! ha. I am learning a lot from all of you guys. Thank you very much for your support and patience.
 
#8
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/21 10:08:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:03:05
No need for apology.  That is what this forum is for.  Don't think of sfz as a sound file in the same sense as you would a fla, wav, ogg, mp3, etc.  The sfz files in session drummer actually use the flac files you are trying to access. Flac files are high quality audio files that use a lossless compression method.  Sfz files within SD3 contain info tat points to the actual sound file sources, among other things. You cannot make a flac a multi-sample. There are few widely available, non-proprietary file formats that allow for multi-samples.  If you open up one of the sfz files using notepad it will give you a better idea what the sfz file is.  Here , for instance is what the sfz file for the high hats for the 808 kit:
 
// TR-808 Hi-Hats 1

// Closed Hi-Hat
<group> key=42 loop_mode=one_shot

<region> group=1 off_by=1 lovel=0 hivel=127 sample=RhythmMachines TR-808 Hats\ClosedHH.wav

// Closed & Open
<group> key=44 loop_mode=one_shot

<region> group=1 off_by=1 lovel=0 hivel=127 sample=RhythmMachines TR-808 Hats\BothHH_0.wav

// Open Hi-Hat
<group> key=46 loop_mode=one_shot

<region> group=1 off_by=1 lovel=0 hivel=127 sample=RhythmMachines TR-808 Hats\OpenHH_0.wav

// Closed Hi-Hat
<group> key=22 loop_mode=one_shot

<region> group=1 off_by=1 lovel=0 hivel=127 sample=RhythmMachines TR-808 Hats\ClosedHH.wav

// Open Hi-Hat
<group> key=26 loop_mode=one_shot

<region> group=1 off_by=1 lovel=0 hivel=127 sample=RhythmMachines TR-808 Hats\OpenHH_0.wav
 
 
 
This one is relatively straight forward. It defines all the files and their location this multi-sample consists of , the volume range, loop mode as well note range for each sample.  Although the sfz file is loaded on to only one slot in SD3, instructions map the respective sounds to the proper places on a keyboard.  The files you are attempting to open would be the files referenced within the sfz file instead of the sfz file itself.  A flac or wav will work in SD3 but it will only contain the one sound.
#9
aj
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1084
  • Joined: 2003/12/08 08:21:36
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 08:08:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:05:29
Of course, if you actually just want to make music rather than spreadsheets, I highly recommend Jamstix. I really don't know why I suffered for years faffing around with drum maps, loading samples and trying to play drums (poorly) from keyboard or pads and just feeling the whole creative urge drain away. Jamstix gives you a virtual drummer who will just play in a variety of styles, add fills and embellishments based on your playing dynamics and, frankly, saves so much time getting your ideas down that I can't imagine trying to do things with tools like Session Drummer any more. After all, once you have the backing track you can go back and fool around with it and stuff, but this gets you from A to B in minutes. It understands verses, choruses and bridges etc, so you can just type in VVCVV etc and your 'drummer' just gets on with it. Doesn't require any beer or pizza, either :).
Or, if electronic music is more your scene, I can't recommend Geist too highly. Unfortunately Fxpansion's regular price is too high, but it goes on sale regularly and for around a hundred bucks on sale, this is a proper tool for managing samples, sequences and patterns. Enormously powerful but very very well thought out. It's a shame Sonar has never really bundled any decent solutions for rhythm tracks - you have to fork out extra money - but between these two tools I can't imagine any need to ever fight with Session Drummer ever again, something I, for one, won't miss.
 
#10
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 12:33:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:06:55
+100 for Jamstix, I've had it for a while but am just beginning to realize what a spectacular piece of software it is (once you get past the slightly dated looking interface and the not-so-good manual). The best thing about it is that you can usually get a fantastic piece of drumming just by setting it going with minimal interference, but you can involve yourself in the beat composition at every level of the process. There are endless numbers of style "widgets" which let you tweak every aspect of the performance on a bar by bar basis, plus you can force the playing of individual hits (e.g. if you want to make sure there's a snare hit on a certain beat of a certain bar), or you can specify "groove weights," or where to play fills (and exactly how to play them), or you can involve yourself right to the point where you're giving Jamstix a MIDI groove that you've programmed yourself and telling it to improvise on and embellish it in the style of any one of 20+ included virtual drummers. The possibilities are endless and run all the way from just loading it up and pressing play, all the way up to manipulating every aspect of the groove yourself. It's an incredible piece of kit once you knuckle down and learn how to use it (which admittedly I shied away from for ages). 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#11
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 12:48:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:08:48
Is it any easier in jamstix to create multisamples? 
 
I agree that having to open up notepad to do such things is a hindrance to creativity and will never be something widely loved by musicians of any level. On the other hand, it does not bother me as much as it used to about the multisample issue.  Cakewalk includes so many multisamples for each type of drum that I can typically find one that does the trick for musical styles that wold require a multisample. For electronic styles, the drumkits tend to get less complex. If for some reason the 808 samples included don't work, I just use a sample without boithering to edit sfz files.Who needs a multisample for an 808 kick?  The 808 did not have a multisample for it's kick. SD3 is not on the level of Geist for electronic drumming or Addictive drums for acoustic styles but it's not as bad as it is made out to be.
#12
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 12:49:23 (permalink)
i will have to give jamstix a try since what sharke said about it embellishing on rhythms i made sounds intruiging.
#13
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 12:55:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:08:41
If you are looking for a quick way to create an sfz file from a bunch of samples, sfZed might be the answer. I would not recommend it to someone just starting out with sfz editing but it does make quick work of the basics. For myself, I have used Emacs for decades so it is hard for me to use another editor for anything.
#14
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Session drummer, High Hat issue 2013/11/24 13:37:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2013/12/07 17:08:54
dubdisciple
i will have to give jamstix a try since what sharke said about it embellishing on rhythms i made sounds intruiging.




The manual is a little confusing, but all you have to do is import a MIDI pattern that you made as a style and apply it to a song part. You have complete control over how it's embellished. The possibilities are almost infinite. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#15
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1