Setting buffer size on sound card and SONAR

Try setting your Playback and Record Buffers (#4 as per your post) to 256.
Of course you will still have to adjust the latency settings in your soundcard or under the general tab in Sonar. Start with the soundcard set to 128 then increase the latency until you get the result you want. If that doesn't work, raise the Record and Playback Buffers to 512 and lather, rinse, repeat. It will take a little trial and error but eventually you will find what works. 512 seems to be the most stable for me on my set up.

Then as you add more tracks and or effects you will have to adjust the latency again.

Mike

ORIGINAL: SongCraft
Not sure what version of SONAR you have. If you change the buffers you need to 'Re-Profile' run the Wave Profile and reboot.

IIRC you can't use Wave Profiler with ASIO.

ORIGINAL: chefmike8888

512 seems to be the most stable for me on my set up.

thanks mike... was 512 set on your sound card or are you referring to the rec/playback buffer settings in SONAR? Also, has anyone noticed a 'general rule' even if they can't really be correlated? For instance, do you always want 2x more I/O buffer than what you have set on your card? stuff like that? Or lol am I thinking about this stuff too simple-mindedly?

Displayed in Sonar.

btw, I noticed you updated your sig! You're using S8.PE, have you installed the latest update for it? ;)

yes, thanks for asking tho... in fact... that's a separate issue altogether; my guitar rig claims I do not have a licence to it anymore... but crashes everytime I try to 'register'... still working on that one.

ORIGINAL: SongCraft

Displayed in Sonar.

btw, I noticed you updated your sig! You're using S8.PE, have you installed the latest update for it? ;)

OK...

I have systematically gone through all combinations between what I can set on the card and what I can set in SONAR...well, I went up to 1024 on the card and 768 in SONAR... all present the same symptoms of mild but noticeable drops.

I kept my eye on the CPU and Disk % usage and they are always quite low (no more than a FEW %). I am beginning to wonder if there is another cause.

Prior to me trying to figure out this buffer size issue I have also: a) set windows for "best performance"; b) got a 'dedicated' firewire adapter (for the project mix); and c) all the random stuff like different cables, disabled IRQs, unplugged the cord to my laptop, etc. Oh and I reinstalled the software too, and all updates as well.

Any other thoughts on how to troubleshoot? Thanks

I'll go and try that stuff tonight... but seriously stuff like wireless and anti virus is enough to do it?

WDM is certainly an option, haven't messed too much with it, primarily out of ignorance I suppose. The rationalle was more or less
1) Nobody seems to like WDM with SONAR, every thread I've read seems to suggest ASIO is preferred.
2) If WDM is used in SONAR, then (if I recall) adjusting the buffer of the sound card no longer has an influence... because WDM uses a "native windows driver", the name of which (or any possible settings to tinker with) I have yet to find. Any takers on that?
3) The latency calculated by the profiler is never at or lower than that obtained with ASIO

A few other things I was told may be worth trying:
- Use "ASIO4ALL" driver... I guess it's downloadable on the web somewhere?
- Delete the AUD.ini file altogether

One thing I HAVE done that is a bit eyebrow raising:
- Installed Reaper, used ASIO driver, and default (i.e. didn't do anything) settings
- Result: PERFECT. Not a single hiccup.
- BUT I don't know how to tell the project mix to work with reaper. And besides, it doesn't really solve the SONAR problem, just negates it.

Any thoughts?

Another thing to check: are your Playback Timing Master and Record Timing Master settings (Options-Audio->General) pointed to your sound card?
Bill B.

yes nollies1 Reaper is very efficient... it just sucks compared to Sonar as an editing app I think.
But the fact that it works so well for actual recording is an educator to me regarding Sonar. I have both- I use Reaper only for vari-speed but I can clearly see the difference in the way it records audio and uses the cpu. I think Sonar is so far heads and tails above Reaper as a recording/production app there's just no comparison- but I constantly have problems with simply recording audio and having it placed in sync with other tracks. It's a problem- a huge problem- for me. Yet it's better than anything else by far (Sonar). I miss my analog multitrack bad...

And bitflipper I notice and really appreciate that all your posts are so very fact-based. You do a good job bringing technical details and accuracy to the forum. Thanks!

There really should be more exact science in the wild zone of how many buffers and milliseconds of latency to use. There have to be exact and repeatable values that are best with certain apps and certain set-ups. It's such an important parameter. Someday we need to get it right!

Im sure you have allready but make sure that the projectmix is in sonar mode and that you have installed the latest firmware and drivers from m-audio.

nollies1


OK...

I have systematically gone through all combinations between what I can set on the card and what I can set in SONAR...well, I went up to 1024 on the card and 768 in SONAR... all present the same symptoms of mild but noticeable drops.

I kept my eye on the CPU and Disk % usage and they are always quite low (no more than a FEW %). I am beginning to wonder if there is another cause.

Prior to me trying to figure out this buffer size issue I have also: a) set windows for "best performance"; b) got a 'dedicated' firewire adapter (for the project mix); and c) all the random stuff like different cables, disabled IRQs, unplugged the cord to my laptop, etc. Oh and I reinstalled the software too, and all updates as well.

Any other thoughts on how to troubleshoot? Thanks

I have the same issues with latency and such just finishing a new 64 bit installation with all software running in 64 bit as well.  It will just take some time to work out the latency issues.  However what I noticed about this particular post is that you said you set windows for "best performance", however it must be said that sound drivers work in the background not in the foreground.  So setting your computer for best performance does not help latency issues, it hinders them.  It would be more prudent to set your computer to run background services as the more important processes.  Cakewalk itself will run fine.  This is something that I picked up from M-Audio.

Wow, your latency results are much better than mine with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 connected via USB 3.1 [Thunderbolt 3]. Something that many people using USB interfaces don't realize is that if you have multiple usb devices or hubs connected to your system, it uses all of the available bandwidth on the Universal Serial Bus. That's why I opted to use my only USB 3.1 port for the 18i20. Windows 10 wouldn't even recognize the Scarlett until I disconnected all my USB devices. Even with just my 4k webcam connected, the camera wouldn't work because the Scarlett was using all my bandwidth. The USB 3.1 port has it's own dedicated bus so that fixed the problem there at least. Unfortunately my ASIO latency is 12.5 milliseconds for both input and output using 551 samples. When I increased the sample to 1024, the latency increased to 24.5 milliseconds.
 
Anyways, the last thing that I wanted to mention is that Windows WILL recognize a max of 4GB of RAM. If you don't have a video card with dedicated graphics memory then oftentimes the OS will reserve 1GB of your physical RAM to run graphics. A semi-workaround might be to increase the size of your paging file to act as virtual memory. This will allow a place for the memory usage that exceeds your available RAM to go. Here's the catch, virtual memory is limited to the speed of your hard drive, so when your system does use it, there is a drastic difference in speed. Upgrading to a solid state drive might help. They are 2.5" which fits perfectly in laptops. SSDs don't use paging files (at least you aren't supposed to) because they are always in a solid state of either read or write. I'm sure that people may disagree with me, but I do actually have a Bachelor's in Computer Science with Specialization in Computer Security so I know one or two things here and there. As for Audio Engineering, I literally just started last week. I know absolutely nothing on the subject. I bought my computer 3 years ago so I didn't go out and buy something fancy. I don't use Mac computers due to my own personal issues with the company, however, I figured out a way to run the latest macOS build in a virtual machine just in case I need to use a program that is only built for the macOS. Also, you have a Core 2 Duo which does support a 64 bit OS, and honestly, your performance will increase drastically if you were to switch. Just some ideas. 
 
I would love to get some more ideas as to correcting my latency. I'm also having trouble with the WDM driver. I can't even switch to it in Sonar because it causes an instant blue screen of death every time. So I'm forced to use ASIO. This is way out of my realm as I do not understand ASIO or WDM. The only reason that I tried switching to WDM is because Sonar is only showing half of my inputs, but unlike other Scarlett users, my list of inputs and outputs do not say "left" or "right" input so it's hard to believe that it is only showing stereo connections, although, it is detecting exactly half of the inputs and outputs. It's not like I will ever use all of my inputs/outputs because I'm just operating out of my bedroom, as I was injured badly in combat and I can no longer walk so I'm in my bed 24/7. I have set everything up around where I lay. Anyways, I said way more than I intended. I hope that you stay well. 
 
Take Care,
Jason
 
**Crap! I just now realized that this thread is 7 years old so it probably won't help anyone. I'm going to post it anyways because I took a lot of time to write it. Sorry everyone.**
 
____________________________________________________________________________________________
SONAR Platinum (23.7.0) Build 37 [07-2017] 
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (USB 3.1 [Thunderbolt 3])
Audio-Technica ATH W5000 
Alienware 15 R2 Laptop
Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
Intel Core i7 6920 Skylake (8 cores) (4.1GHz [Overclocked],1000MHz FSB, 6MB Cache/1024MB L2 Cache) 
32GB DDR4 2133 MHz RAM
1TB Samsung NVMe PM951 M.2 PCIe SSD (Boot/Programs)
1TB 7200RPM Seagate HTS721010A9E630 (SATA 6 Gbps) [Storage]
5TB 7200RPM Seagate SCSI USB 3.0 Expansion Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M (4GB GDDR5 @ 2500 MHz) PCIe 3.0
Intel(R) HD Graphics 530

 
Hi Jason,
 
Welcome to SONAR. ++1 on Chuck-E's advice to use the Scarlett's included ASIO drivers (and then update them from the website).
 
You said:  <<<Windows WILL recognize a max of 4GB of RAM.>>>
Do I misunderstand?  I definitely don't think this is true.
 
Your input/output list may seem like you are only getting half the ins/outs because it shows something like "Scarlet Input Device 1"  when it is actually Scarlett 1 and 2.  They are stereo by default, but the default naming is confusing.   You can rename all your ins/outs to make it less so -- just check "use friendly names" and double click on and edit the existing name  I just use "Z 1-2" for my Zoom and "O 1-2" for my Mackie Onyx interfaces - it's short and easily fits in the inputs/outputs window in Track View.
 
Good luck.  There is a lot to learn but digital recording/engineering with SONAR is addictive in the best possible way.
 
Aloha,
Bill

I've always wondered (though I experience no problems) that if when I'm mixing (not recording) I set the playback buffer to 512 and the record buffer to 512, does that mean that my soundcard buffer should be the sum of those two values, i.e., 1024?  In any case, that is why I read through this post, being bored and can't sleep.
 
RE: Jasonthelegend's post
 
I bought an M-Audio M-Track USB interface to use with my admittedly crappy laptop while on the road, and never could get the latency down to what I'm spoiled with my ancient PCI card stuck in my ancient Win7 motherboard in the studio, namely inaudible latency of a couple msec.   I found USB unusable.  It sits, brand new and unused, in a box on the shelf!
 
I realize that people do get these USB interfaces to work, so you should be able to get yours to work, given the power of your system, which far outpaces my mid-tower PC.  I suggest setting your buffers at 512.  I imagine Playback will be good, but latency with your guitar (?) will give you brain damage.  You can then reduce buffer size by steps of 128 until Playback begins to stutter but latency has improved. 
 
If this doesn't solve your problem, then your problem is due to something else.  Duh.  If you are trying to record guitar through a plugin to get the sound you want, I've never been able to get that to work.  Other than stick a mic in front of an amp, I use either my Behringer V-amp or Line6 rackmount guitar processors.  What I hear is what I get.  The line6 also has a direct bypass line-out, so if I want to use a plugin, I can set the Line6 (or whatever) to mimic the sound of the plugin, but only use the plugin on the dry recorded sound after I'm done laying down my parts.  I wonder if that is the problem you are having.....
 
As far as posting on here, folks generally try to be helpful, unlike the Dodge RAM forum where everyone seems to think it is their job to flame.  So if you get stuck, post.  I've been doing this stuff since Windows 95 came out and I sold all my multitrack tape machines.  I still get stuck and have to post.