Setting up "Reference Tracks" for mixing

Hi All
 
I just wondered how people configure X2 for referencing their mixes against commercial mixes
 
I was thinking of having my reference track as "Track 1" and muting it until I need to reference it with my mix
 
I can see 2 options
 
Create a "Master Master" (as my mix will be going to the MASTER bus and I will probably have some rudimentary mastering processing going on) so that I can route the reference track and my mix to this "Master Master"
 
OR
 
Can/should I route the reference mix straight to my outputs, therefore bypassing the Master bus
 
For those of you using reference mixes - how do you set it up in Sonar?

I bought and am finding this worthwhile:  http://www.samplemagic.com/details/184/magic-ab

Don't forget, any reference track you import into Sonar will already be mastered, so don't try to emulate it's loudness, in fact, I usually lower the fader of the ref track by at least 6dB

Thanks guys
 
Routing direct to audio interface and lowering the fader on the reference track seems to be the way to go
 
However - that MAGIC AB looks interesting Jerry and it is only £25 so I will be checking it out
 
Can you give a little more "user feedback" on it?

Leadfoot
But then I'm a moron.

Me 2.

bapu

Leadfoot
But then I'm a moron.

Me 2.

I guess I'm in good company then. :)

{tongueInCheek}
I'm not sure I buy into the whole reference track idea.
 
I mean, after enough listens Louie Louie sounds as good to my ears as does Bohemian Rhapsody.
{/tongueInCheek}
 

silvercn
I wonder - is there not a program / plug in that can copy or simulate either the spectrum or EQ of a reference track - and then "paste" the settings into your project?

I believe the free program AAMS should do that.  I've downloaded it but haven't tried it yet.

I always set up a Sub master or "2bus" before the Master fader. All the Master track effects are on the sub master/2bus. This allows you to route a reference track to the Master while bypassing the 2bus, which is effecting the rest of the mix. It also comes in handy in cases where you have dialog separate from your music tracks.

As far as matching EQ curves, Ozone is a great program that can do that...as John mentioned.

There are legitimate applications for EQ-matching, but correcting your master bus to "match" a commercial reference isn't one of them. It just doesn't work. Analyzing well-made records is great for educational purposes, but trying to improve your own mixes by matching their spectra band-for-band is an exercise in futility.
 
Don't believe it? Create a project and import a handful of reference songs. Put SPAN on each of them, turn down the sound and play them all at once so you can observe their spectra side-by-side. Note that although there are broad similarities, they are all quite different in the details. If you still need further convincing, use EQ-matching to match one of them to another and see if you've actually made any improvement over the original engineers' decisions. 
 
If you have Ozone, tell it to display the generic -6dB/octave reference line. That will serve as a broad guideline and be just as useful as trying to match your favorite records.
 
 

silvercn
So that being said - what really are the key parameters and quality features of a reference track that can be examined and used successfully to improve a project.. 

Anything you like that is in the genre that your project falls into.
 
Steely Dan is NOT best for a Death Metal project.

I bounce my entire mix to tracks and put basic limiting plugs on it and that is what I finally export to a wav file. I route this track and any reference tracks to a separate bus from the master and this bus goes to what I call the Main out which is the interface outs. I use reference tracks mainly for a guide to the bass frequencies in my mix to make sure I'm not too boomy or too thin (usually to boomy), as well the overall brightness and tightness I hear in them. I don't worry about what the spectrum looks like as compared to commercial releases except as a general guideline and not for any specific frequency changes.

silvercn
So that being said - what really are the key parameters and quality features of a reference track that can be examined and used successfully to improve a project.. 

Dynamic range, crest factor, average RMS and level distribution, spectral curve, correlation.
 
The best method, though, isn't technical at all. Just spend time listening to your favorite records through your studio monitors. Over time, you will imprint on your subconscious what a good recording is supposed to sound like in your room on your speakers.
 
It will even compensate for anomalies in your room's acoustics. If you have a nasty resonance or comb filtering or ringing, your brain will naturally try to filter all that out just like it would the hum of an air conditioner or traffic noise or the sound of blood pumping through your ears. Try it. It really works.

The Magic AB from Sample Magic does just what I was hoping for. It's well worth the few dollars they charge for it. Check out the link on it above to see more about it.

jerrypettit - I want to thank you again for pointing this one out.  In the spirit of new things with Sonar X3, and since I knew I'd have to update the way I have things set up I went for the Magic AB plug as well. 
 
I'm super enthused about Sonar X3 and what it has in it.
 
The Magic AB plug is a separate purchase I made, but has put an extra exclamation point on my new set up.  This is just what the doctored ordered to monitor your mix in progress and conveniently listen in on any choice of reference material.  It's great!