Helpful ReplySetting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq.

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interpolated
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2017/06/10 15:08:00 (permalink)

Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq.

I was messing about earlier trying to figure out the most effective way to do this.
 
Essentially, if I was finishing off a music track and wanted to compress the whole master buss however wanted to leave the mid, treble frequencies alone so they are perceived in the mix. Eg. I want to leave anything after 2Khz alone and only compress before it.
So parallel compression but not every frequency.
 
I tried using an Auxiliary track with equaliser beforehand followed by a compressor which isn't sidechaining.
 
Also tried using a PC4K compressor however I wasn't that impressed with the results.
 
Now there must be an obvious way to do this however I'm not really sure if I'm missing something obvious. 
 
So to summarise  I am trying to setup a bus compressor which has a sidechain to an external eq/high cut (or eq setting) which only compresses material  2Khz and after.
 
 

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/10 15:43:29 (permalink)
why not use a multiband compressor on the bus and leave those bands alone which you don't want to compress?
 
if it has a mix control knob you could even blend it (parallel compression) without having to use a bus

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#2
interpolated
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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/10 16:04:29 (permalink)
That's an option I guess. More than one way to skin a cat.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/11 14:47:23 (permalink)
I was messing about with a track and after some effort and tweaking I got some sort of results. In a way, the differences were subtle like more air in the mix without having increase or decrease reverb from the assorted elements. Also I changed my mastering chain a bit which meant not so much transient reduction and the mix was able to breath a bit more in the mid-treble range.
 

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/11 14:55:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby interpolated 2017/06/11 16:47:43
There are indeed many cat-skinning techniques. But each one yields different results.
 
Frequency-dependent compression can mean [at least] two different things: filtering the sidechain, or compressing specific frequency bands. Two very different effects, and I'm not sure which one you're after.
 
In the first method, the compressor acts normally (and can be either broadband or multi-band) but it's looking at a filtered sidechain when deciding how much to compress. That's normally done within the compressor, and requires that the plugin provide a sidechain filter. Many compressors do, although the sophistication of their filters varies. One plugin that's designed specifically for doing this on the master bus is the free TDR Kotelnikov bus compressor, although in the free version its sidechain filter is limited to high-pass. My favorite is Fabfilter's Pro-C, which offers a full parametric EQ for the sidechain filter.
 
In the second method, the main signal is split into two or more frequency bands, each of which gets its own compressor. The Sonitus Multiband works well for this, but you may find the newer LP-MB easier to use and potentially more transparent. 
 
There is a third option: dynamic equalization. My favorite tool for this is MDynamicEQ from Meldaproduction. Dynamic EQ avoids potential issues inherent in multiband compressors from splitting and recombining the signal, because it's an equalizer rather than a compressor. It's just as easy to use as a compressor, though.
 
Which of these methods one might choose depends on the desired effect. On the master bus, a common problem is when low frequencies dictate overall compression, which can, for example, cause a dominant kick to smack down an innocent tambourine. If that's your scenario, I'd recommend Cakewalk's LP-MB with a single band.


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interpolated
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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/11 16:47:37 (permalink)
Thanks for the answer. Very informative and insightful.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/11 21:08:55 (permalink)
OK so here is what I did and it's hardly eloquent either however it seemed to work.
 
I created a LP MB in the Master bus. Setup two bands, 1st band with no alterations, compression ratio etc. 2nd band with some light compression on the mids to highs. Set the sidechain to external.
 
Created a new stereo bus called submix. sent all the other relevant busses to submix. Muted the output, set the Send to LP-MB (Input 2). 
 
When going back into the LP-MB on the master bus using Sidechain Audition you can hear the audio being affected by the compression.
 
Not really elegant however the Master Output doesn't really offer much of external output to other busses that are not hardware. I had a look at the automation settings although the envelopes only address data in the same audio bus as far as I can tell anyway.
 

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/11 21:21:36 (permalink)
Somaltus with no preset then eq pray
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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/12 15:05:12 (permalink)
i would think that a MBC on the master buss, with only partial freq's getting compressed,
would really screw a mix up.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/12 15:11:33 (permalink)
Not sure if anything is really working as yet. Going to try something more basic. I have a mix I'm working on which should at least allow me to use eq and compression to make sonic room for a kick off. Might invest in fab pro c or anything similar.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/06/20 23:19:56 (permalink)
A couple of things I discovered tonight is. Firstly you need to use vst3 versions in irder to use third party plug-ins for sidechaining key inputs

In the plug-in properties for bitbridge if it has 4 channel input enabled then stereo sidechaining is possible.

This might be obvious to some but I like discovering this sort of thing without having to ask.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/05 23:39:19 (permalink)
Ok the answer is, I just need a dynamic EQ/compressor. I tried using Wave F6 Dynamic EQ which works to a point. For example, you could use 8kHz as a central point. A really wide Q value of 0.5 and set a reduction in the area. The problem for me I suppose now is what do I use to trigger the sidechain or do I just use it on the master bus as is which in theory should do the same thing as long as I change the mix value to make it parallel mixing.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/07 19:17:56 (permalink)
I'm sure this is too simple.. and I'm missing something..how about create a BP for all the treble range you want to leave alone, then compress the rest, and add back the uncompressed range?

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/07 19:29:30 (permalink)
I saw the trick in a Reason video, where the guy set up a compressor for the whole bus (mixer) and the whole mix gets compressed there however a sidechain EQ on that compressor uses an external EQ to only change those frequencies.
 
I'm pretty sure I over thought it though. Let me think about it and I'll come back with an answer.
 

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/08 05:29:06 (permalink)
I have mastered quite a few albums and from my experiences I have found if the mix is nicely balanced across the spectrum then in many cases you don't need to do this and in fact a single full range compressor can work very well. And with no side chain filtering taking place either.  I often use the API2500 for this job or some of the Tokyo Dawn Labs compressors as well.  Even when I was using outboard hardware compressors such as the Smart C2 I never had to side chain either.  It really all comes back to making that mix well balanced.  And don't forget that compressor over a mix need not be working too hard either.  Like 1.5:1 ratio with 2 to 3 dB's of GR. So under these circumstances using the side chain is also not really necessary.  I have sat in with some top mastering engineers and they did not side chain things either.
 
In situations where I had difficult mixes to compress, I found the multiband to be a bit of a saviour here. You can set it too to not be doing much across the spectrum e.g. low ratio and low amounts of GR but when a band comes along that is excessive for whatever reason then it trips the compressor harder and keeps things in line.  Both the Cakewalk and Studio One multibands are excellent although in some ways I find setting the Cakewalk one a little easier. The Studio One GUI is almost a little too complicated but once you know it then it does work well too. 

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/08 07:58:29 (permalink)
It's a trick really for an effect more than anything. For certain tracks that are EDM although I know essentially it won't sound right on everything. I will rewatch that reason video and see of I can work something out.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/08 21:54:22 (permalink)
interpolated
It's a trick really for an effect more than anything. For certain tracks that are EDM although I know essentially it won't sound right on everything. I will rewatch that reason video and see of I can work something out.



 
Yes of course. Your OP did not mention anything about genre.  I am leaning to the pristine much more transparent approach to compression in mastering.  But for EDM and other styles then for sure you may need some serious side chain options in order to get the effect you are after.  I have not mastered an album that has called for it as yet.  But I am interested in how you may achieve it though.

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Re: Setting up Sonar Platinum to compress master output with sidechain eq. 2017/07/08 23:52:08 (permalink)
I may need to set up an auxiliary track which all the mix busses get sent to which in then receives the sidechain information from fx bus before summing it all through the master channel. The master bus only seems to trigger through prochannel and cakewalk effects.

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