Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar.

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ohgrant
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/10 12:36:53 (permalink)
 Nessasary....probably not, it's an I5 with 8 gb ram. I guess old habits are hard to break. If there is a service running that I never use, it just bugs me to have it running, like "fast user switching" and "secondary logon" gets disabled, anything I might use I set to manual.
 
I was just reading your upgrade thread Mesh, sounds like one heck of a nice game rig/ DAW you built,  cheers

Me
 
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Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/10 19:14:52 (permalink)
No the tweaks are not necessary for all, or at all, if your machine is working without problems.
But if you have issues and cannot run down the problems, (Like I have had with different Gear and software on this Sabertooth x58 board)...then to root out the cause means to use something that can isolate variables, and rule them out.
 
Yes they were initially for older type Machines...x58 is not that old, but x79 is way newer...Gygabyte boards are ok...But I wanted ASUS because all the system I have built have been very long lived with ASUS....and I have built a few..
 
Thus I used to use a UAD solo card on same system, which caused crashing and blue screens....removal of the card and driver, resulted in a stable system,  and better performance in software used for music recording and mixing...Then I troubleshot that, to find Microsoft sharing it with a motherboard processor chipset...which is why it would crash the system when used.
And because win 7 64 bit does not allow for the assigning of IRQs, Like XP did, the problem could not be solved on said system...SO I built another system for UAD Solo, using USB Audio interface...instead of Fire wire  1394 B.
Taking a implemented standard and it's IRQ implementation on most boards, and utilizing it for AUDIO...No need to need for another IRQ for a secondary device like Fire wire ...So less IRQs used, means less sharing....Turning off redundant devices in Bios, stops windows from loading up drivers for them. Even though it may be left on in Bios, and turned off in the WINDOWS control panel's device manager, when one does this, windows has to load the drivers for them devices...best to keep windows lean, and only loading up what it needs to work with, for what the system was built for...
Thus Isolating the Root becomes easier to do, when one has control of certain input and output information, and or installed and turned off services and systems.
 
 
That is one way to find root causes of problems one may have, with differing devices...changing them, removing them, or finding better drivers...it is all a game of roulette...Not all systems are the same, not all systems that are Identical will perform exactly the same in different places in the world....reason is = + or - 20% parts of verying quality!...location could also cause problems, clean power vs dirty power...also can be a issue...See So many Variables to root out.....that is why I chose to do the tweaks, put conditioners on my power ...Isolate the power for the recording system from the rest of the house or home...It is a long list of preventive measures....
 
That being said...with all that done..and still finding anomalies in the recordings makes for a very upsetting mindset....But more of Les is on the Job than should be, to root em out for you if you have em...wink.
 
And now, I can if I chose to, turn back on some of those services....But I do not need to, so I will leave em off...and enjoy the crippled OS....as it has Crippled me for so long....revenge is sweat, when served cold...they say.
 
Have fun...remember turning off services mentioned in the Black Viper tweak guide have been tested...So no worries, if you find something needs something you turned off, turn it back on....Turn things off one at a time if need be, or if you are suspecting it may be needed leave it on, or turn it to manual instead of off ,..and that solves that.
 
Be well
Be Good
 
Sir Les
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/10/10 19:23:06

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#32
fireberd
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/11 06:33:15 (permalink)
Take many tweaks posted on the internet cautiously.  Many are only for specific hardware configurations or software configurations and not "general" for any system.
 
I do part-time computer support/repair and I've had clients call with problems that were caused by applying some tweak they found on the internet.

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#33
Mesh
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/11 09:44:28 (permalink)
ohgrant
  
I was just reading your upgrade thread Mesh, sounds like one heck of a nice game rig/ DAW you built,  cheers


It certainly is a pleasure to work on. I have to admit that I've been playing more games on it than doing music as the playability is smooth & fantastic experience......something I couldn't do with my earlier "limited" pc's. X2 has worked flawlessly on it and is definitely an improved experience going 64bit.
 

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#34
ohgrant
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/11 13:22:38 (permalink)
Mesh
ohgrant
  
I was just reading your upgrade thread Mesh, sounds like one heck of a nice game rig/ DAW you built,  cheers


It certainly is a pleasure to work on. I have to admit that I've been playing more games on it than doing music as the playability is smooth & fantastic experience......something I couldn't do with my earlier "limited" pc's. X2 has worked flawlessly on it and is definitely an improved experience going 64bit.
 


 
My major motivation for the upgrade was 3D gaming, just tried a few older games and wow....I'm going to be tied up for a while :)

Me
 
#35
Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/13 08:10:07 (permalink)
Yes there are lots of tweaks out there!..and for certain setups are necessary to perform, and get that state of bliss from doing them tweaks.
My situation is the way it is...because of chosen hardware...(unable to use internet)....and devices not working properly together with Said system.
 
 Black Viper has tweaks for specific MUSIC setups...and he tested them, and posted the results as being sound or safe for most.
He also states in a Blog , that the newer cpus with multi cores do not need to be tweaked as much as older systems of the dual cores or single core cpu.
 
Balance Via Tweaking equals more cpu core exclusivity for Music app and more plugin use with less issues...Less background apps running to cause problems with system, Audio and Daw performance.
 
So if one is serious about music making..???....To get the most performance out of the Machine as possible, as it is said may result, and some do (AVID) (Pro Tools) (Steinberg) and others, Daw developers will tell you to turn off background apps...and or some services...and or some hardware that may conflict with other hardware...(Like my Allen and heath r16 and nic cards having issues)
So there is merit to doing some tweaking, and gaining a more robust and trouble free system for Music, when done.
 
 
I would imagine most will appreciate some of the methods, and tweaks posted, to help root out Problematic setups with their systems if need be, to help gain that trouble free state of being for Music studio grade productivity and stability.
 
Sir Les
 
 
 

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#36
Old55
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/10/19 12:23:28 (permalink)
As far as NICs go, is that the only NIC available?  Some motherboards have several NICs where one or two are connected to the chipset and extra NICs are connected to a separate chip.  If that's not the case, you can buy a PCI or PCI-e NIC card fairly cheaply.  I'd look for one with a reputable chip maker for the NIC chip. 

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
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#37
Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/11/11 11:06:00 (permalink)
The Problem with adding another card to a slot in a system...as you mention to add a Nic card...slots share IRQ's with eachother..depending on what slot shares with what is the motherboards set standard...but they all share one to another...in some way shape or form...seeing as the video takes one and shares with the second slot down,..that slot is unavailible...and as I use Firewire b card it is in a unshared slot which shares with the second slot down...So...no slots open to put a nic in without sharing with something...Pci or Pcie x1 or x16...so if i need to go on the net...I turn off the mixing board...and go into the bios and turn on the nic....That is my solution so far...I have tried usb wireless but that is also problematic.
 
 
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/11/11 11:08:49

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#38
Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/11/11 11:15:16 (permalink)
I found CPU speed step also enabled today...I turned that off today, and booted Sonar x3c...and now I seem to have solved cpu spikes, and audio drop outs in sonar...I hope.
But more testing is necessary to see if it continues to perform trouble free in this manner, as it seems each time I load up the software, it is different behaviors i notice, which cause me to wonder...more about my tweaks and settings being necessary.
 
 
Thanks for the replies...and in hopes we find bliss together.
 
Sir Les
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/11/11 11:16:32

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#39
Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/11/17 11:19:36 (permalink)
I will now say...Turning off " Intel speed step technology " and VT (virtual Tech) in Bois, along with Black vipers suggestions of win 7 64 bit tweaks....have made my Sonax x3c setup more than stable enough...
I have noted a reduction in sonar x3c's cpu metering to almost nil...Yep that is right, when Idle in sonar, there are no longer any yellow metering to be seen for the cpu.
That means more cpu processing is dedicated to Sonar.
 
So with that now in ordered states...and some forced.....I believe my first serious and expensive PC audio setup is complete, with the Asus Sabertooth x58 board, and my devices of choice.
 
I cannot see anything else that would cause spikes to occur, and since turning off the cpu speed stepping no spikes have occurred...this could be causing plugin crashes also?.....although I am not a specialist, nor do I read the update info ...So I am still in the dark about what windows needs to run (in background) effectively under the conditions Sonar needs, and plugins or other applications.
 
My secondary x78 system will be tweaked similarly to this one.
 
Now that that has almost solved the issues...Further testing will commence, and deeper use of sonar's features will also...oh boy...midi is next .
 
Thanks again for the forums!
 
Hope some of this helps others setup for the fun.
 
Sir Les
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/11/17 11:31:53

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#40
ohgrant
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/11/19 19:40:13 (permalink)
 Sorry I didn't think of that Les, I figured you did that from your signature. That is likely the issue you were having with your UAD card too I'm thinking? I think you may be a tad hasty in concluding that IRQ sharing was the cause of your UAD issue. I remember back before the P4 era when upgrading a device became a real issue ,with certain PC's with limited resources, upgrading anything. That problem has been reduced greatly since the P3 days on most systems. I only encountered one motherboard since then that was as stubborn as those, a P4 with an SIS chipset. You have an intel mobo with an intel chipset, very unlikely IRQ sharing issues there  IMO the most important component for stability in regards to upgrading is the Northbridge controller (chipset). If I'm building or choosing an intel based system, it simply has to have an intel chipset.
Just so you know, I have a UAD-2, Powercore express card, Powercore MK1 running with my Impact Twin and Powercore X8 all playing real nice together.
 
Glad things are starting to work out for you.    

Me
 
#41
Sir Les
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Re: Setting up Win 7 64bit for Sonar. 2013/12/01 01:17:21 (permalink)
Well Mesh...if you are still there...depending on the problems being noted by the user...and the way win 7 puts things in shared states....sometimes one has to resort to extremes...as you said, win 7 and 8 have done some things to resolve or try to hide the sharing, via adding virtual irqs...and it share those to.
Got crackling and noise on your audio?...if so...tweaks need to be done to the systems bios (plug and play) to try to make the bios king ruler of the installed devices in those slots...and you have to make sure the devices are not in shared states according to the motherboard.
Then win 7 should stop sharing those things...or is suppose to.
That is one tweak.
If drop outs noise and such continue...perhaps buffers need to be adjusted...when done, does it stop the problem?
If it doesn't something is interfering with the audio driver internally with windows...and one must root out the problem...could be a app, or service running in the background of win 7..like security, or auto updates, or something else....again that is what troubleshooting it about...turning things off and seeing if it solves the problems.
 
So not using you internet while recording?...turn off the nic card....not using the usb stick...take it out....etc.
And then services if need be the end all be all...and apps...and startup menu...msconfig,...and looking into event viewer ,is now something I have learnt how to use also, to seek even deeper into error logs and such....but this leads to....services, and I jumped that process of event viewer and went right to Black Vipers audio setup tweaks.
 
I went through them, and read up, and turned off what I thought should be or could be the culprit.....and I found some bliss...it is not perfect yet...that is why I am here.
 
But no more bsod's...and I have recorded some projects with good results, but with high buffer settings to stop some anomalies....and it seems ok, ,,,but I know it ain't perfect..and it should be by now.
 
So I am doing something wrong with installation, or something is causing it via background interference..... So I need help...to nail it once and for all.
 
I have now found x3c, which I installed wrong, and along side x2a, and am troubleshooting it.....had to reinstall win 7 too many error codes..only x3c now...and I am now taking my time, and trying not to tweak, as requested by others....And it is going ok, but I have cpu spikes still while recording.......I had to install as admin...and it is running...with those problems which lead me to tweak ....SO eventually they will see my point of view when the cpu spiking issues get out of hand...errors are already accumulating...in event viewer....and I have done no service tweaks at all for a while, and Microsoft techs were called in...remote viewed, and made some tweaks to stop auto updates from running.....WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS NOW>12/1/2013 1:17am
 
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/12/01 01:21:48

1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II,   G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive,  2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT.
2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
3.  Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
#42
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