differentbydesign
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Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
I have just replaced my computer after it was damaged with an upgraded machine I5 3.4ghz Quad core processor, 120gb SSD, 8gb of RAM and Windows 7 64 bit OS. Interface is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Firewire.
The interface has worked perfectly in earlier versions of XP and 32bit Win 7 but now with all the increased resources father than any improvement im getting dropouts constantly. I have set the playback and resord buffers everywhere from 32 to 2048 and while the higher setting improve things im still getting dropouts. Enabling read/write caching doesnt seem to help.
Any help would be appreciated!
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scook
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 09:04:44
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Have you tried adjusting the AUD.ini variable DropoutMsec to 500 or 750? Info about the variable here: http://www.cakewalk.com/D...I_Files.6.html#1134652 BTW, you are in the wrong forum. Although dropouts are common to all DAWs, the X series forum above this one is a more active forum for X series users.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 09:47:42
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Thanks I did as you suggested and am still getting pops and dropouts though not as badly.
Should i repost in the other forum ?
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 10:10:19
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Happy Thanksgiving! Try latency monitor and post the results. Deferred procedure calls may be causing your dropouts and this app will finger the culprits. http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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scook
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 10:23:39
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Posting in the other thread will definitely get more eyes on the subject.
For now see if latencymon helps. Should have been the first thing to try. It may point to the true source of the problem rather than reducing SONAR's sensitivity to the problem (which is what my first post accomplishes). You can always mess with AUD.ini, the default is 250, should you want to restore it.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 10:31:16
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/11/29 07:45:31
Results as requested
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:01:30 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: ROSS-WIN7
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: ASRock, H87 Performance
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8037 MB total
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 3399.0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 3716.0 MHz (approx.)
Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.
Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5827.301826
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 3.759631
Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 5812.841273
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 2.114676
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.
Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 561.024713
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation
Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.515152
Driver with highest ISR total time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation
Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.779185
ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 586759
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 4
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.
Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 574.060606
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation
Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 1.072117
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation
Total time spent in DPCs (%) 1.229656
DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 668021
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 3
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.
NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.
Process with highest pagefault count: msmpeng.exe
Total number of hard pagefaults 75
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 66
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 2750.023242
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.003891
Number of processes hit: 2
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 7.667463
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 561.024713
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 2.813230
CPU 0 ISR count: 586763
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 574.060606
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 4.411942
CPU 0 DPC count: 656465
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 2.452492
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 37.323625
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.005417
CPU 1 DPC count: 1739
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1.895740
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 83.989114
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.009995
CPU 2 DPC count: 3652
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1.656066
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 35.305678
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0.012294
CPU 3 DPC count: 6168
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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bitflipper
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 11:32:08
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/11/29 07:45:49
Wdf01000.sys is a generic library used by multiple drivers, so it's probably some driver or hardware device (a USB device or network card would top the list of suspects), not wdf010000.sys directly, that's the actual source of the excessive DPC latency. Try disabling your network and compare latencies, just because that's the easiest place to start. You can then start disabling USB ports in Device Manager, which might identify a faulty USB controller.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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scook
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 11:39:42
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I am curious, is the conclusion
One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
significant or should the driver exploration start first. I don't know never having dealt with either.
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bitflipper
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 14:07:27
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CPU throttling for power conservation could be an issue, but rarely is. It's not a bad idea to have a separate power profile for recording sessions, though, in which nothing powers down.
Looking over the OP's test results again, I see that it actually shows fairly modest DPC latency, maxing out at a mere half a millisecond with the vast majority of calls being less than a quarter-millisecond. Maybe not great results, but certainly not terrible. (I've seen latencies of up to 4 seconds caused by bad-behaved network adapters! That's terrible.)
I wonder if page faults might be a factor. It depends on whether they all occur initially when the project is first loaded (which is normal) or if they occur during playback/recording (which could indicate insufficient memory). It'd be worthwhile to check the task manager and see if any processes are eating unusually large amounts of memory.
Another thought...if you are getting page faults while recording or playing back sample libraries you'll want to make sure your paging device (pagefile.sys) is not on the same physical drive as your audio files. I have mine split across two drives, with a third reserved just for audio.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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lawp
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 14:10:03
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could it be the fw chipset?
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 22:05:08
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DifferentByDesign, Is this a USB or a FireWire device? You might post some of your system specs in your forum signature to make helping you easier. So, what you probably want to do is make some tweaks to some settings and re-run the latency monitor to see if you have removed the issue. There are a few likely culprits... - USB Selective Suspend
- Video Driver
- Battery if it's a laptop
You want to turn off USB Selective Suspend... This link describes it... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff540144%28v=vs.85%29.aspx This link talks about how to disable it... http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/147369-usb-selective-suspend-turn-off.html Since this is the easiest thing to try, give it a go and report back. Next suggestion will be to go into device manager and disable acpi compliant battery if it's a laptop (be sure you're plugged in first) and maybe the video driver.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/11/28 22:13:03
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/28 23:51:37
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@Gswitz
Yes it is a Firewire Interface Specifically a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 connected to a PCI Firewire /USB combo card. CPU load on the machine while playing back multitrack ( approx 20) Audio is only a few % and Memory use is negligible. This isnt a resource issue as I have played this song on my older slower and dumber machine with no issues many times.
PC Spec as follows ( I5 3.4ghz Quad core processor, 120gb SSD, 8gb of RAM and Windows 7 64 bit OS. Interface is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Firewire. Running Sonar 8.5 Studio, X2 and X3 Producer)
USB Selective suspend disabling made no difference.
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 00:13:11
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good to know it's firewire. USB Selective Suspend wouldn't matter in that case. Sorry I had to ask. I see you posted it initially. Firewire cards can be troublesome. Sometimes folks who have the ability will try a different card. I don't know if this is a possibility for you. Something you could try is disabling the firewire card in the Device Manager and running the Latency Monitor to see if your DPC Latency issue resolves. Right now we're just trouble shooting it. Obviously you can't live without Firewire, but perhaps you could get a new firewire pcicia card that ONLY does firewire. Firewire can be funny on Windows machines in part b/c of the drivers and in part b/c of the amount of current Firewire supplies to devices. I5 processor sounds like a laptop, but I'm not sure. Laptop or desktop? Can you open the case and put in your own Firewire card? I have an old laptop that has a firewire port that NEVER worked properly for audio interfaces. It worked for capturing video from my DV Camera, but it was useless with three different firewire interfaces including my RME. The RME also has USB which works fine on the same computer. Now, my laptop had a cheapo firewire port. Yours is probably much better. I'm just trying to rule it out. To some degree, you just want to keep restarting the latency monitor as you run around disabling things until you DON'T get problems reported by the DPC monitor. Then re-enable everything one thing at a time to see what you need to disable for audio work. It may be something small. It'll just take some tedious trouble shooting in Device manager. Don't uninstall things. Just try disabling them. And, btw, even if you do uninstall from device manager, you PC should just reinstall them on reboot.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/11/29 00:20:46
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 00:38:07
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Its a desktop not a laptop.
Swapping out the card is not an option without buying extra cards
Latency monitor runs fine till you fire up Sonar then sometime in the next minute it craps out.
It seems (SEEMS) that it might be being caused by a wireless LAN card which i also cant live without.
Just testing this theory out now
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 02:14:40
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I also have another rather bizarre issue in that whenever Sonar is the active window a high pitched buzzing sound can be heard (ie: outputted from) the interface which is independent of and level settings or mutings. It is not high in volume but you really notice it when you switch to another window!
I dont know if its related or not but i suspect it is.
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 07:43:45
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Hi pitched buzzing may be related to the power being sent through the Firewire card. With electronics, isolation from electrical current is important and can cause a 60 cycle hum in the USA. In other countries where the current is different the hum is also different. Definitely disable WIFI while recording. Most laptops have a button on them to make this a one click action. Running down the buzz is going to be a challenge but here are some ideas... - Try your interface on another computer and see if you get the buzz. (You can install Sonar on all the computers you own as long as you only use it on one machine at a time.) - Try a different Firewire card. I just bought one myself for a new PC. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=+PCIe+Syba+TI+chipset+Firewire+controller&N=-1&isNodeId=1- Download Audicity and use it to make a recording with your interface and see if you get the buzz (isolating the problem from Sonar). http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 10:51:52
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All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 17:40:20
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Disabling the wireless land helps but does not fix the issue
Here is an interesting twist on the problem. It happens using all the version of Sonar and using either the fire wire interface or the on board audio which would suggest a more fundamental hardware problem like ram or cpu even a SATA port
The buzzing turned out to be a ground loop so not part of this issue
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/29 23:27:53
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I'm betting it isn't RAM. It's probably something battery related like the video driver or the battery that I listed above. Have you tried disabling them in the Device manager to see if your situation improves. Don't panic about having them disabled for the purpose of the test.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/11/30 04:54:20
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Its not a laptop it has no battery
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/01 06:24:54
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bitflipper
It's the wireless LAN.
Thats what i thought too at one point but it isnt. Behavior is the same with or without Lan card enabled
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/03 02:35:34
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Have just Run up on another HDD a 32 bit Install of Win 7 on the same machine installing only the Drivers for the interface and Sonar X3. Behaviour is actually worse if anything. There are no pops, cracks or stuttering just complete dropouts and even a number of Sonar actual crashes
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/03 17:46:16
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Did you go through the steps of disabling devices while studying latency monitors results?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/04 06:28:50
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Yes Have done everything suggested and more and have finally come to a situation where having removed the wireless NIC and made many tweaks and adjustments its finally running on The 64 bit Win 7 build so far without any audio issues though im not holding my breath.
Having got that working im now faced with some bizarre disappearing VST's problems :(
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gswitz
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/04 18:15:19
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Sound like progress.
For disappearing VSTs, be sure to go into Properties > File > VST Settings and click Re-Scan Failed and Rescan Existing then click Scan.
See if maybe this helps.
Thanks!! G
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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differentbydesign
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Re: Severe Dropouts in Sonar x3 Producer
2013/12/06 06:37:36
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Thanks there seems to be some inconsistent positioning of vst into the correct folders due to the 64 bit system though have got most of them now sorted. Only really strange thing is in the "default all plugins" view they can be seen but if you try to manage them and create your own menu some vst's simply cant be seen no matter their location no matter how many time you scan or rescan even looking at "excluded" view shows nothing. Most notable example is Addictive Drums . All a bit strange really!
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