kevinwal
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Shot in the Back - Rock - Updated mix
This is the first tune I'm posting for feedback. I'm a bit intimidated by some of the quality I'm hearing from you guys, but I need to learn my chops so thanks for giving a listen and I appreciate any constructive criticism. Thanks! https://soundcloud.com/kevin-ibsen/shot-in-the-back Update: I've taken in all the commentary and have produced a new mix. Interestingly, to my ears it doesn't really sound better, just a bit different. I'd be interested in hearing some comments on this. I've also noticed quite a bit of difference between the wav, the mp3 and the tune after soundcloud is done hammering away at it. Anyway, here are the changes I incorporated: 1. Adjusted the mic'ing of the snare (I'm using Addictive Drums 2) to more heavily favor the top over the bottom mic. I've also goosed the snare volume a tad, along with the kick. 2. I've modified the bass to increase the high pass filter starting frequency to 60hz and increased the slope some. I've also added some upper mids to capture a bit more of my p-bass's character. I think I could do more here but I'll stop where I'm at. 3. I've reduced the reverb on the vocal tracks quite a bit. 4. I've reduced the volume of the synth to allow it to fill out things without getting to onerous. 5. I've adjusted the overall eq of the track to add a bit more top end. Since I don't have very good high frequency hearing it's tough for me to judge whether or not I've gone too far here so comment is very welcome. The new version can be found here: https://soundcloud.com/kevin-ibsen/shot-in-the-back-v2 Thanks!
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/10/17 00:40:33
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Wookiee
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/03 07:59:01
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This works quite well here the vocals are nice and clear everything else seems to be in the right places.
Thanks for sharing.
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Flagrant Regard
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/03 11:31:33
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Nice groove, licks and overall tone on everything. Love the treatment on the voice. Can hear everything nice and clear without you being too in-your-face. Would love to hear a bit more width on the piece (drums mainly). The guitars are separated nice. The snare could come up a hair, or it could be brightened a touch. Give that synth a bit more width with some stereo simulators or delay. Maybe found a similar patch on another vst or synth and pan the babies L&R creatively. Would love a little bit of brightening (watch for Essing!) on the overall master'd track.
Great song overall. Good work sir!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/03 13:30:33
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Thanks for the feedback! Never would have thought of brightening the snare, not sure why. My high-frequency hearing isn't very good so I'm always cautious there, but I'll give that whirl. Thanks for the great pointers!
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mesayre
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/03 15:35:07
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Hey Kevin,
Cool tune! Nice catchy riffs and a good mix.
There's something about the way the synth comes in at 0:42 (and when it comes back later) that rubs me the wrong way. I think part of it might be adding some width and/or ambience, as previously mentioned, and part of it might be the arrangement - either bring it in a little sooner and more subtly, or keep it going softly under the verse - or under the chorus. Right now it shows up just long for me to notice it, then goes away.
Thanks for sharing. Nice work.
MIke
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/03 15:53:06
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Thanks, Mike. I too have a love/hate relationship with that synth. It's been banished from the tune more than once. :) I'll play with it a bit and see what I can do with it.
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stevec
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/05 14:18:25
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Good song! Overall I think the mix works but could maybe use a few tweaks... I agree with the snare comments, where I'm almost hearing a higher pitched version; and maybe a bit more snap/top vs. bottom/snares. For the kick I'd personally cut back on the hi click just a little or maybe lower its frequency if you can, otherwise it seems to blend with the bass very nicely. All subjective nit-picks though because it does sound good! I like the changes from verse to chorus, very cool..
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Grizzlylip
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/05 14:44:30
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I loved the guitars in general. Nice tone, placed well in the mix, and good volume. I also enjoyed the breakdown at 2 minutes. I was needing a change in pace and that served this purpose well. My only critique would be complimentary to those above regarding the synth. In my opinion, it is unnecessary and sounds almost forced. If you are committed to keeping it I would suggest trying an aggressive use of a high pass filter and maybe some volume reduction. This way it would present itself as a nuance. Just thinking out loud.
My 7 year old son walked in and said "nice song, I like the drums." So, there you have it. I would trust his judgment over mine.
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Wouter Schijns
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/05 17:28:16
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sounds really good I thought, great performance/playing too.
Only think I could find is maybe the bass guitar hass a hair too much low freqs (somewhere from 60 to 40Hz).
Great stuff !
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synkrotron
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 03:21:49
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kevinwal
I'm a bit intimidated by some of the quality I'm hearing from you guys
Hi Kevin, I know exactly what you mean. Listening to Shot In The Back, though, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Cool song, and sounds pretty good to my ears  . There's some excellent advice here already, and I'm not going to embarrass myself by trying to add to that  cheers andy
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 09:28:15
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stevec
Good song! Overall I think the mix works but could maybe use a few tweaks... I agree with the snare comments, where I'm almost hearing a higher pitched version; and maybe a bit more snap/top vs. bottom/snares. For the kick I'd personally cut back on the hi click just a little or maybe lower its frequency if you can, otherwise it seems to blend with the bass very nicely. All subjective nit-picks though because it does sound good! I like the changes from verse to chorus, very cool..
Thanks for your feedback, Steve. I'm not really clear on what you mean by snap on the top vs. the bottom snares, can you elaborate a bit? Do you mean to even them out or to emphasize one over the other? Thanks again!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 09:30:14
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Grizzlylip
I loved the guitars in general. Nice tone, placed well in the mix, and good volume. I also enjoyed the breakdown at 2 minutes. I was needing a change in pace and that served this purpose well. My only critique would be complimentary to those above regarding the synth. In my opinion, it is unnecessary and sounds almost forced. If you are committed to keeping it I would suggest trying an aggressive use of a high pass filter and maybe some volume reduction. This way it would present itself as a nuance. Just thinking out loud.
My 7 year old son walked in and said "nice song, I like the drums." So, there you have it. I would trust his judgment over mine.
Thanks, Grizzlylip (there's an image for ya!) That's two votes against the synth, I'm seeing a trend here. :) I always trust the instincts of a seven year old, they're much smarter than I am. Extend my thanks to him, wouldja? :)
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 09:32:33
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Wouter Schijns
sounds really good I thought, great performance/playing too.
Only think I could find is maybe the bass guitar hass a hair too much low freqs (somewhere from 60 to 40Hz).
Great stuff !
That's great advice, Wouter, I'm struggling to make the bass more audible but natural on crappy devices like laptop speakers in general (not just this song) and this might help some. I've boosted around 750 and 1k and that's helped some but cutting down low might help a lot. Thank you!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 09:34:17
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synkrotron
kevinwal
I'm a bit intimidated by some of the quality I'm hearing from you guys
Hi Kevin,
I know exactly what you mean. Listening to Shot In The Back, though, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Cool song, and sounds pretty good to my ears .
There's some excellent advice here already, and I'm not going to embarrass myself by trying to add to that
cheers
andy
Thanks, andy! I've listened to your stuff and you're one of the ones I was thinking of when I wrote that! I very much appreciate all of the feedback from everyone, very helpful!
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synkrotron
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 09:55:33
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kevinwal
and you're one of the ones I was thinking of when I wrote that!
Eh! Get outa here! (thanks though... where do I send the cheque? Do you accept paypal  )
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 10:03:38
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☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2015/10/06 10:17:45
Yeah, really. I was speaking of Corona, which I really dig.
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synkrotron
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 10:09:56
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kevinwal
Yeah, really. I was speaking of Corona, which I really dig.
Aye! One of my better ones Kevin... The rest of my stuff is all electrickery
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stevec
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 15:07:23
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kevinwal
stevec
Good song! Overall I think the mix works but could maybe use a few tweaks... I agree with the snare comments, where I'm almost hearing a higher pitched version; and maybe a bit more snap/top vs. bottom/snares. For the kick I'd personally cut back on the hi click just a little or maybe lower its frequency if you can, otherwise it seems to blend with the bass very nicely. All subjective nit-picks though because it does sound good! I like the changes from verse to chorus, very cool..
Thanks for your feedback, Steve. I'm not really clear on what you mean by snap on the top vs. the bottom snares, can you elaborate a bit? Do you mean to even them out or to emphasize one over the other? Thanks again!
Exactly - I would try emphasizing the snares' top head vs. bottom (real or virtual) for a bit more "pop". The drum sounds good as-is, I just imagine less snares/mic'd bottom head in the overall tone, if that makes sense. If you're using a drum synth I'd also try raising the pitch a little to see if that gives it a little more snap on its own.
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rscain
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 16:31:46
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Really cool song! It's different, yet feels familiar if that makes any sense (to me that's a really good thing). Nice guitar work, vocals sound really good (nice harmonies!), good drums, could maybe use some more high end on the snare as noted but it's your song so whatever works for you. It gets the job done as is.
Mix issues can be fixed. Not saying there are any, we can tweak forever and probably always find a nit or two.
The important thing is, is it a good song with a good arrangement? I think the answer here is heck yes.
Great job, thanks for sharing it!
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Beagle
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 20:41:07
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great work! yes, this is a good arrangement! great performances
nothing to add to the mix comments that haven't already been covered
great job!
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emeraldsoul
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/06 20:53:05
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It's fine the way it is. Here's how I'd mess with it:
Vocals up. Snare up. Ride cymbal up, too while we are at it. I'd keep that synth pad, maybe just bring it is slower and softer, not quite the velocity ramp you have. Take it out more gradually, too.. In the choruses, the backing vocal makes the lead vocal more unintelligible because it sounds like they are positioned right on top of each other - I'd separate them with panning 'cause right now I have no idea what the words are in the chorus.
This is an excellent song. You've got some serious style in your songwriting. Quality in the guitar tones really sells it.
cheers,
-Tom
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dcumpian
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 08:35:35
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Very cool tune! Overall, this is a well done recording and mix. I think what everyone is saying about the snare is that it is missing some "thwack". It has meat, but no top end snap, which makes it sound a little too laid back, IMO.
Otherwise, this mix sounds pretty close to my ears. Vocals are sitting perfect, bass is present and complements the guitars, kick is right where it need to be.
Regards,
Dan
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 11:19:28
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rscain
Really cool song! It's different, yet feels familiar if that makes any sense (to me that's a really good thing). Nice guitar work, vocals sound really good (nice harmonies!), good drums, could maybe use some more high end on the snare as noted but it's your song so whatever works for you. It gets the job done as is.
Mix issues can be fixed. Not saying there are any, we can tweak forever and probably always find a nit or two.
The important thing is, is it a good song with a good arrangement? I think the answer here is heck yes.
Great job, thanks for sharing it!
Another vote for bumping the snares, I'm going to have to see what this does for sure. Thanks very much for your input and for the kind words!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 11:20:26
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Beagle
great work! yes, this is a good arrangement! great performances
nothing to add to the mix comments that haven't already been covered
great job!
Thanks for listening and for the encouragement!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 11:30:14
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emeraldsoul
It's fine the way it is. Here's how I'd mess with it:
Vocals up. Snare up. Ride cymbal up, too while we are at it. I'd keep that synth pad, maybe just bring it is slower and softer, not quite the velocity ramp you have. Take it out more gradually, too.. In the choruses, the backing vocal makes the lead vocal more unintelligible because it sounds like they are positioned right on top of each other - I'd separate them with panning 'cause right now I have no idea what the words are in the chorus.
This is an excellent song. You've got some serious style in your songwriting. Quality in the guitar tones really sells it.
cheers,
-Tom
Thanks, Tom I'll give the synth changes a try before I consider jettisoning it altogether. You really think the main vocals should be more forward? As for the backing vocals in the chorus, you've nailed where I spent much of my mixing time and it's still not where I'd like them to be. I found that when I separate the voices it doesn't sound as much like a blend, more like two guys shouting in a room, but as you've pointed out, I do gain the articulation I'm looking for. I was thinking I need to re-record the backing voice to track more closely with the lead voice, what do you think of that? Thanks for your great feedback and for the kind comments on the song itself, it's really great to hear that folks enjoy something with which I struggle so endlessly!
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 11:33:49
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dcumpian
Very cool tune! Overall, this is a well done recording and mix. I think what everyone is saying about the snare is that it is missing some "thwack". It has meat, but no top end snap, which makes it sound a little too laid back, IMO.
Otherwise, this mix sounds pretty close to my ears. Vocals are sitting perfect, bass is present and complements the guitars, kick is right where it need to be.
Regards,
Dan
Dan, thanks for clarifying my confusion on the snare. I'm out of town right now so any re-mix will have to wait till next week, but I'm anxious to try out these ideas to see their effects. Thanks for your ideas and comments!
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daryl1968
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 16:29:12
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Really like this Kevin - great song well performed
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kevinwal
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 16:50:21
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daryl1968
Really like this Kevin - great song well performed
Thanks very much, Daryl, I appreciate you giving it a listen.
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ohgrant
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 19:59:05
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Really cool tune. Mix sounds great on cans, have to agree a tad more energy to the snare would benefit. Maybe a touch of transient designer love in the drum buss. Great tone and style on guitar. Great sounding vox
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Starise
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Re: Shot in the Back - Rock - Critique welcome!
2015/10/07 20:07:50
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I would be proud of this accomplishment kevinwal...really well put together and played. I love those vocals and that guitar sits in there sounding perfectly suited for where it is . NICE!!
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