Should I be using real time ptich correction for vocal takes?

Correct manually after you've finished recording.

Always.

Without exception.

V-Vocal can only be applied after recording.

I like a combination of the two. In addition to post-tracking correction using Melodyne and V-Vocal, I also like the traditional real-time method: "dude, you're flat! Try it again."

 ^ Even the best singers in the world can't hit certain pitches; however, getting a vocal coach will certainly help things greatly. Adversely, I just think the OP wants to lay down a simple track - not necessarily make being a vocalist a career choice.

Sure, it's the easy way; however, maybe it's best to do it that way for the OP for now. No different than going from using your ears to eyes and vice-versa when performing music - both of which take years of practice!

^ That's true! I was watching a video about "humanizing" a sequence which is the same thing.

However, there's the obvious misconception with Auto-Tune as well. While I agree it's used way too much and artificial - maybe that is what the piece is going for. The other thing is the niche genres.

What was Auto-Tune used for back then mostly (and still used today for). Dance/Trance/Electronica and all other related genres because according to most, one doesn't "sing" in that genre or isn't supposed to.

Whereas with Pop, Hip-hop/R&B, you are supposed to sing there. Misconception there as well as you don't have to. It'd be wonderful if you did, but you don't have to.
 
The voice is only an instrument just like a bass, guitar, piano, etc; however, these instruments are processed to get a particular sound which is not natural or real; yet, most folks do not complain because it generally fits the song.

Guitars are often processed to get a dirty sound in grunge/metal/alt. rock, but are used in pop, ballads, R&B/Hip-Hop, too

Basses are processed though they may or may not sound as dirty since that is the task of the guitars.

Pianos often played acoustically are processed to get a certain effect (filtered usually).

All of these different tones/timbres/textures through processing and not one person says anything about the musicians (virtual/real) learning these instruments! So, why do that for the voice? Distortion/Fiiltering isn't any less of a signal processed like Auto-Tune where every pitch still sounds "perfect."

I'd sound ridiculous telling Mr. Bass and Guitar and Mrs. Piano that you don't sound real in the studio because they'll tell me the same thing:

"The songs will sound different if we were just ourselves."

Yes, they pretty much are when performing live; however, processing still takes place during a live performance (Mrs. Piano is generally a keyboard here) if that's the effect you're going for unless you wanna go totally unplugged to which all these instruments become "real."

I'm not disagreeing with you on how much of a crutch Auto-Tune has become; however, distortion/filtering, etc have also become crutches given that logic as specific genres and even outside of them use these processing techniques very often if not all the time, but no one seems to pay no mind.

Too much use is tiresome, but if one's voice wasn't real the 200th time it was used, what makes one think it was the first time it is used - despite everybody going "Wow!" the first time it was used?

Well, yeah. I've noted depending on the genre, but again it's that expectation because of the niche idea. That's the issue! The niches that come about. That's why it's so hard to categorize a genre and look at the relentless categories we have. All because of one variable that isn't always so obvious!

I understood the comment. It just sounded kind of harsh to me. I'm sure it wasn't intended, but I could feel the annoyance in the post given that the Auto-Tune lightbulb went off in my head.

Auto-Tune = You can sing, but you can't; however, he or she may get even worse comments when trying to - especially if it doesn't sound to good! (ie: Britney vs. Christina. One is technically sound while the other is perhaps not; however, both have taken the artificial route, too)

Again, though, whether the song/genre calls for it or not - may as well try to become pretty good at singing - even if you never sing a song that requires such!

Probably should not use pitch correction at all.

^ Should I laugh or cry?

Rbh


I think that "real time" pitch correction is the singers JOB. But - hey I'm old school.

Here's a question though: what if everybody sounded naturally technical? That would sound just as fake/artificial as any pitch correction/auto-tune plugin!


Simulated music isn't a bad thing because it may have whatever live music lacks and it's not necessarily all about perfection; however, people talk about "humanizing" sequences alongside "computerizing people." Do you see my point?


Again, you are right; however, those people in the audience for the most part if they have good ears, "pocket" was is heard and respond to themselves accordingly. And as I said above if the singer is worried about such, he or she would never get through (recording/performing) the song because that being off just a bit nags him or her.


So again, humanizing music or computerizing people, because the ear determines what it likes and what it doesn't like. I'd really like to hear people's thoughts on this. (Btw, familiarity is not what I'm looking for in answers necessarily because that is obvious!)

skylightron


Thanks for all great feedback. So is pitch correction that is applied to vocals matching the octaves of the keys that's being played? And without the software, how do you know that you need to sing at a higher or lower pitch for a certain piece of music? And with it, how does the software determine if it needs to lower or higher the vocal pitch for the music?

Here, you get into what is called relative pitch or perfect pitch.


Relative pitch has to do with being in relation to another pitch. (ie: C-C#/Db is a semitone or a half-step part; C-D is a tone or two half-steps) "Do I sing higher or lower?" (Relative pitch)


Perfect Pitch:


Two things here:


1) Being able to tell exactly what a pitch/key is without using the surrounding pitches as a reference. I know this is the key of C instantly as opposed to naming notes in its proximity. (C#/Db, B/Cb, D) trying to find it! (Those three notes are very close in proximity, but I can go further away.


If the accompanist plays in Eb, the vocalist knows immediately to sing pitches within that scale! Likewise, if the singer says Ab, the accompanist knows what will be the first note/chord being that they sound identical in pitch or if they don't, but he knows what pitches fit within the straddled key.


An example of when both may be used:


If a song happens inpromptu and the singer is clearly off or straddling a key - the musician will help the singer find it. Once found, off they go!


"Sounds like she's singing in between Db and Eb! Aha! It's D!" or the same scenario and he picks one of those two keys (Db/Eb) and she adjusts accordingly.


2) The other is more technical. This goes into talking about the frequency of pitches - aka - tuning! (Not to be confused transposing)


Standard tuning is A440. This means that Middle A (a minor third below Middle C) vibrates at a frequency of 440 hertz; thus, it sounds identical regardless of the instrument it is played on. (Piano, Harp, Violin, Flute, Guitar, Bass, etc.) Btw, every pitch an octave above doubles in frequency (Middle A = 440; Middle A(8va) = 880 Hz. Adversely, when it's an octave below, it reduces by one-half (Middle A = 440; Middle A(8vb) = 220. Holds true for every octave up or down. A440 (2 up) = 1760; A440 (2 down) = 110


Ever hear a song that seems slightly out of key? This is why! There are some factors here, too though. Have you utilized the chorus effect? That's essentially what it ends up doing. It blends many signals of the same pitch; therefore, we hear it back as being "out-of-tune," though it is not. The overall dry signal is in tune where the repeated (wet) signal is just off ever-so slightly. 

Or this example:

You're listening to a song that is Bb, but you find out it's not quite there when trying to play with it on your guitar. Sounds more like A. This is because either it was decided upon recording to play slightly out-of-tune (non-440) or the playback device. (ie: Record player/Tape Deck) runs at a speed slightly slower or faster cause the pitch shifts!

Many hip-hop songs that use samples use this technique (The chipmunk effect) where the recording is sped up so fast, that what the vocalist(s) sounds like! However, it's sped up to stay identical to the pitches underneath it!

When I mentioned not to confuse tuning and transposing, here's what I meant:

Transposing is changing the pitch, but when doing so, the frequency (tone) remains unchanged, despite the actual note being a different frequency.

Middle A = 440hz; A#/Bb =/= 440hz; however, all the notes within that spectrum means that my instrument is tuned. I just changed keys!

Yet, Middle A @ 220hz, though the same note is NOT the same pitch as I am hovering around A and Ab/Gb, (frequency) but it's not quite either of those (notes)

 To answer your question, you're better off referring to factor #1.