Genius Animus
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Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
I just bought Sonar X3 Producer off steam maybe a month ago. Was looking for a DAW to start learning with. The price on steam was too good to pass for a 'top of the line' daw. I'm still learning how to use it in its entirety. Cutting up vocals, messing around with loops on the matrix grid, mixing, etc. The tutorials are my next immediate project.
Above being said, I'm still in my "i'm never going to understand this" phase. The upgrade seems well priced and affordable and I do enjoy shiny new toys to play with. Would it be reasonable for someone who barely dipped his toe into the world of producing to even consider this upgrade? Or should I stick it out with what I have to learn the basics?
One more question. So far this forum has been my source of trying to make sense of all the jargon and how to work advanced techniques. What are some good resources that you guys learned from. I don't really have a formal teacher. Not even an informal teacher.
Is there an order of priority when it comes to learning how to be an efficient producer?
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Bflat5
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 04:26:55
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I'm still learning this myself, but my opinion is for the price of the upgrade you can't go wrong, especially with all that comes with it.
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John
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 05:16:43
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Genius Animus
I just bought Sonar X3 Producer off steam maybe a month ago. Was looking for a DAW to start learning with. The price on steam was too good to pass for a 'top of the line' daw. I'm still learning how to use it in its entirety. Cutting up vocals, messing around with loops on the matrix grid, mixing, etc. The tutorials are my next immediate project.
Above being said, I'm still in my "i'm never going to understand this" phase. The upgrade seems well priced and affordable and I do enjoy shiny new toys to play with. Would it be reasonable for someone who barely dipped his toe into the world of producing to even consider this upgrade? Or should I stick it out with what I have to learn the basics?
One more question. So far this forum has been my source of trying to make sense of all the jargon and how to work advanced techniques. What are some good resources that you guys learned from. I don't really have a formal teacher. Not even an informal teacher.
Is there an order of priority when it comes to learning how to be an efficient producer?
One nice thing about upgrading is the veterans are also learning too. In a way there is more for a long time user to have to understand when upgrading. What will be the impact on my well established work flow with new features and additions? Plus its easier to help others with it because its current and something many are studying. Besides what is the point of learning the old version or if way behind a really obsolete version?
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kakku
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 05:56:49
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One good reason to upgrade is that there will be probably less bugs in the long run.
Sonar X1 Studio, Duo-capture and Steinberg's UR22 mk2 interfaces, super fast (read snail like) dual core computers, Arturia the Player 25 and Goldstar midi keyboards, Samsung Galaxy Ace 2 phone kakku
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rontarrant
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 06:00:16
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Genius Animus
I just bought Sonar X3 Producer off steam maybe a month ago.
You might inquire whether or not you get the upgrade for no cost since you bought it so recently.
-Ron T. ---------------------------------------------------------- MSI GE72 2QF-247US, 12 gb, Focusrite 6i6, AT-2020 ---------------------------------------------------------- Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 06:20:54
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CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Karyn
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 06:33:55
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There are plenty of additions and enhancements well worth the current $149 upgrade if you go from Producer to Platinum. The difference is that "soon" it will cost $199 for the same upgrade when the special offer price expires.
That on it's own should be enough of an excuse reason to upgrade now.
To learn Sonar just ask as much as you want here. That's what this forum is for.
To learn general production/mixing, ask in the Techniques forum. Also check out the many tutorial videos available, both for Sonar and general production techniques.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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mudgel
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 08:05:34
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Stick with the tutorials as they'll give you the basic understanding of how Sonar works and give you an overall idea of what's involved in music production. Cakewalk have Cake TV http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV and Cakewalk university http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONAR-UniversitySpend some time exploring the Cakewalk website it's a very large repository of information and links to external information not Sonar specific. Go to iZotope.com and get the iZotope Mixing guide. It's very much an industry standard primer. Even if you don't have their software the material is generally applicable no matter the software used. There's aguide on mastering as well as you'll see on the page when you get there. https://www.izotope.com/e...port-resources/guides/
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Paul P
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 08:17:01
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There are hours and hours of Sonar-specific videos in the cakewalk store. Then there's groove3.com for videos on production. Might be money better spent than an upgrade. And treat your room !
post edited by Paul P - 2015/02/04 10:23:18
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Afrodrum
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 10:19:44
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I guess you will not need to upgrade earlier than in a year, by then you will probably know little more than half of Sonar features. You need to consider that the price may go up though.
Windows 10/64, Intel i7 Xeon X6575 3,07GHz, 24Gb RAM, chipset: Intel X58 Express, Kingston SSD 240Gb, Sonar Platinum ∞, Edirol UA-25. ( Some extra VSTs: PSP almost all/ IK - AT4, ST3, / AAS - all/ TH3 full/ +10dB/ Melodyne Editor). EVE sc205 monitors, Defil Kosmos guitar, blue lava lamp, ashtray. And there is some great music you may find at: https://soundcloud.com/pawel-jan-1
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Paul P
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 10:25:06
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Afrodrum
You need to consider that the price may go up.
That's certainly the plan, but I'm hopeful that we'll still see a sale every once in a while.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Genius Animus
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 12:04:57
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Shout out to everyone who gave me resources. I now have a notepad filled with things to accomplish. As for sound treating my room, it is not possible. My only alternative is to buy a really decent pair of cans. If I truly get to the point where I need to perfectly master a track, I'll ask one of you guys to do it  . Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines as most of you as to why it would be a good idea to upgrade. Reading all the forum posts about previous bugs and improvements was extremely encouraging. I should be getting my scarlett 2i2 today and will be working on getting it set up and recording some of my horrible guitar play. For some reason I am sure to have more latency than I would be used to. How do i reduce latency?
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AT
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 12:16:05
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One of the reasons the deal you got was so good is that Cake was hoping you'd upgrade. Consider it a twofer.
It is a long (but fun!) slog, but if you are serious about recording (or the upgrade cost is no real pain) you'll save money in the long run. Which is what I always tell people, especially newbies. I've bought plenty of stuff (and not just musical) and kicked myself later when I decided to upgrade. The last lawnmower I bought I saved $25 but I didn't notice until I got home the wheels didn't adjust in height. I didn't know they made such a critter! Anyway, lesson learned. It is the same way w/ music purchases. If you buy cheap but are serious, you'll most likely buy the better and more expensive gear later and give away the original purpose or have it rust in the attic.
As far as headphones, I've never found them to work as the main monitors. You may find it different, but I bet you end up wanting decent speakers. I wouldn't worry too much about soundproofing - most rooms can be mostly tamed for monitoring if the speakers are decent. They are more than headphones but will provide a much better real world listen. See pp 2.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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azslow3
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 13:14:54
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As newbie, I have not found something so exciting in the new Sonar. Check new features to see either something attract you right now.
Even announced price difference is in fact no difference in a long term, taking new schema into account. If you upgrade in one year from now for $200, you will effectively save $100 ( $150+$150 - $200). But you can miss some "goodies" produced this year.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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bigt1
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 13:48:50
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I'm going to jump on the NO bandwagon. I didn't see anything so profoundly awesome that would make me want to pony up any money. Sonar X3e Producer does everything I could ever ask for. I don't need Addictive drums 2, when 1.5 works just fine for my needs and I've still not mastered all of the parameters. The ability for effects to stack up is irrelevant. Stackable sends... I use the up down arrow just fine. I already have the blues tubes stuff. I don't care about modeling amp software at all. I upgraded X1 thru X3, I felt like each one really brought an enhancement with it. I just don't see the enhancement in this version. I feel like this one was just a "hey, we were working on this already for X1, we just now got it right, so we want paid now."
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Atsuko
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 13:59:38
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Desktop Intel I7 12GB RAM Win 10 64bit - Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 2nd gen - Roland A-300 PRO - Yamaha HS50M speakers - Sonar Platinum/CbB - Samplitude Pro X3 - Studio One 4 - Melodyne 4 Studio - Ozone 8 Adv - Neutron 2 Adv - RX7 Adv - ARC2 // Notebook Dell I7 8GB RAM Win 10 64bit
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Travis406
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 14:00:29
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If you open the preferences by hitting P or edit>preferences and then go to Audio and locate the buffer. This will adjust your latency. This will vary how low you can set it depending on your pc...
Sonary X3 Producer Edition 64 bit, Windows 7 64, bit, Intel Q9660, 8 GB Ram, Echo Audiofire 12
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AT
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 14:48:09
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Yea, you can adjust your latency and it should be fine for most people. And you can tune your PC for better performance, even from the USB.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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ward s
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 14:54:35
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I am an uber-noob, and I took the platinum plunge from X1. I bought X1 with the best intentions, but life didn't cooperate. I don't know enough to testify to the value of the upgrade, but I can tell you the process of upgrading was a total breeze and everything I have played with in Platinum has one important quality: it works. It's really been fun. No crazy tech frustration.
The other thing I wanted to toss out there is regarding your latency question. Somebody told me to get a little external D/A interface and I'd never need to worry about latency. (I'll let the smart folks here say whether or not that is accurate.) I got an M-Audio 2x2 interface (Fast Track Pro) for less than 200 bucks, and it's been great. It plugs in to my USB and takes all the load off my sound card (actually this computer doesn't even have a sound card) and handles all my I/O needs. It provides phantom power for my mic as well.
And I second the thing about using speakers over headphones. I found a used pair of Mackie powered monitors for pretty cheap, and they've been awesome. Added bonus: Netflix through the monitors.
Glad to hear there's another crappy guitar player in the house.
i5, 16 gigs RAM, 3.3 GHzWindows 7 64 bitSonar PlatinumM-Audio fast track proAxiom 251988 PRS Custom with Joe Barden 'buckersG&L fretless bassDog
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musicroom
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 15:50:05
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Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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mudgel
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 21:10:18
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If you're a noob maybe you don't need to upgrade, maybe the refinements and workflow enhancements since X3 are not so noticeable. But for the experienced or professional users the changes since X3 is significant.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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bluzdog
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 22:37:18
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Cactus Music
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/04 23:44:26
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For me, I upgraded and I swear I hardly notice any change as I'm working. I have opened X3 a few time by mistake ( habit of the icon ) and it's all the same for what I'm doing. The changes are minor. I never had a "bug" in X3 so if they fixed something, heck if I would notice it.
The main reason for the upgrade is to stay up to date overall and mostly if you like the new features and burnt offerings ( plug ins and VST's)
Wait for your interface to arrive then your latency issues will go away.
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dwardzala
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/05 09:24:17
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Atsuko
Hi, Genius,
I'd suggest this free course at Coursera: https://www.coursera.org/course/musicproduction
It started last monday but you can follow it easily.
+1 I am taking this course right now, although I have been in the hobby for 7 or 8 years (off and on).
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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Genius Animus
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/06 04:38:39
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My Scarlett 2i2 didnt work =[. Going to return it for a new one. Always waiting for a really good deal on the ATH m50s. My brother got a pair for 80 and I'm looking for around the same. The tutorials are a little bit difficult to understand and even more difficult to put into use at the moment, but its nice to have things in mind other than throwing reverb or phaser on everything i do haha.
Correct me if I am wrong, is gating panning a track from left to right in a sequence? I would like to do that with a few of my tracks and I'm trying to figure out if I have a plug in for it stock or a way to do it manually.
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GregGraves
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/06 05:22:22
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Go to Staples, buy some stick on tabs. Buy the Garrigus X3 Power book, read it, use the tabs to bookmark places you are going to want to refer back to. The Cakewalk manual (pdf) is 2100 pages - it has a tutorial in it - print it - do it.
If you've got 30-40,000 dollars laying around, and you go to recording school, one of the exercises is mixing with headphones. You can't do it. Buy a self-powered speaker that is bi-amped. Go to Recording Revolution website and find the review on cheap monitors.
Don't listen to folks telling you (at this stage of the game) to worry about your room acoustics. There is no end to that trail short of hiring an acoustical architect and rebuilding. If you are curious, download REW5.0 (its free) and analyze your room. It will suck. But it will not suck to the point of affecting what you are doing. I've made decent recordings in the past holed up in a drum booth good enough to get me a record deal.
Recording is an art form. Just like playing guitar or piano. The more you learn the more you will realize you need to learn. You will also realize that you are getting to create something that wasn't there before, and that is a good thing.
As to answer your post (should I upgrade?), isn't that a factor of your financial status? You've got to get some speakers ($120), a descent microphone ($100), mixing board ($250), A/D audio interface ($80), and yes headphones (get Koss ProAAA for $80 or so on Amazon -- don't fall for the hype -- there is very good environmental reason to believe that hearing acuity of people living in 1975 is much better than today and that there's a reason these pro headphones have been around since then -- they sound good, they isolate, they withstand abuse ). The guy who owned the studio I used to work at kept 10's of thousands of dollars in cash in his glove compartment. If that is you, well, why ask the question?
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bluzdog
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/06 08:16:57
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Genius Animus
My Scarlett 2i2 didnt work =[. Going to return it for a new one. Always waiting for a really good deal on the ATH m50s. My brother got a pair for 80 and I'm looking for around the same. The tutorials are a little bit difficult to understand and even more difficult to put into use at the moment, but its nice to have things in mind other than throwing reverb or phaser on everything i do haha.
Correct me if I am wrong, is gating panning a track from left to right in a sequence? I would like to do that with a few of my tracks and I'm trying to figure out if I have a plug in for it stock or a way to do it manually.
No, gating is completely different than panning. Panning has to do with left to right placement in the stereo field. Gating is a function that either allows the signal to pass through or cuts it off. Auto Pan can bounce a sound left to right in rhythmic patterns or you can create your own with automation. Sonar Power is a great resource as mentioned above. Rocky
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Paul P
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/06 08:34:25
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GregGraves
Don't listen to folks telling you (at this stage of the game) to worry about your room acoustics. There is no end to that trail short of hiring an acoustical architect and rebuilding. If you are curious, download REW5.0 (its free) and analyze your room. It will suck. But it will not suck to the point of affecting what you are doing. I've made decent recordings in the past holed up in a drum booth good enough to get me a record deal.
I would do it simply for the enjoyment of having great sound to listen to. The benefits would far outweigh any new functions to Sonar since X3, especially for someone who hasn't yet master it. For 150$ you could at least get rid of early reflections off the side walls and maybe the ceiling, without doing anything to the room itself, which may not be allowed in a place like an apartment. A long time ago, my ear opener for treatment was suddenly hearing so clearly Sonny Rollins and Donald Byrd as two very separate instruments when they're playing in unison. Before you couldn't tell there were two. And this was in a pretty good room with at least a 9 foot ceiling, but no treatment.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/06 09:04:31
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Cactus Music
For me, I upgraded and I swear I hardly notice any change as I'm working. I have opened X3 a few time by mistake ( habit of the icon ) and it's all the same for what I'm doing. The changes are minor. I never had a "bug" in X3 so if they fixed something, heck if I would notice it.
The main reason for the upgrade is to stay up to date overall and mostly if you like the new features and burnt offerings ( plug ins and VST's)
Wait for your interface to arrive then your latency issues will go away.
+1000 ..I feel the same, For me the only difference x3 offers for me is better Midi . Ad2 works the same as AD1 , In fact I would of wanted the new PC Dave Bendeth plugins instead of same drum plugin. Voc sync cool i guess, amp sims enough already, I know Gibson owns CW . rematrix I'll probably will never use.. Mix recall will probably never use that too...Fx stacks . OK whats the big deal , just move the Arrows as mentioned above, Cleaner view YES i give it that!! So for me this upgrade in terms of value is less than stellar. For Others its a homerun..$150 for Midi functions its about what I paid for, and the fact Im on the newest version make all the sense why I Upgraded, Am I happy with Platinum Yes and NO. I sure hope the bakers fix bugs in a timely manner and just dont choose bugs that are just the highest priority and over look the little ones .Hope we all get the love. Has there been any Bug updates recently? just my 2 cents
post edited by djjhart@aol.com - 2015/02/06 09:11:52
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Genius Animus
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Re: Should a Newbie Like Me Upgrade?
2015/02/08 02:12:44
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Auto pan is what I wanted. I am trying to do a remix of Dr. Robotnik's boss theme and I think Autopan is just what I am looking for lol. Also mixing the vocals of Imagine Dragon's Radioactive and Evanescence's Bring Me To Life. I am super clumsy with the daw so progress is really slow, but it's all for the sake of progress!
As for the update, I will most likely purchase it at the end of this month. As much as I want monitors, I am in no position to invest in them. As per the limits of my environment. Mr. GG(GregGraves) mentioned Focusrite's VRM box and it really looks like an interesting set up. The cheap headphones (Koss ProAAA) recommendation also might fit into my plans just right. Plus I'm a hipster at heart so wearing retro headphones fit my style (vanity<3)
So the set up so far looks like. Scarlett 2i2, Koss headphones, some cruddy desktop, akai mini 2.
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