Signal Routing Question

From what I read, if I understand it, ya the ADAT tape machines record actually 16 -bit but with 20 bits, so going to something with 20 bits is I think not possible anymore if it ever was.
 
Might be possible to just go from the mixing console into an interface but then I am not sure about that either. I think the ADAT machines from what I have seen had phono inputs and other type inputs but I do not think that anything nowadays is the same.
http://www.alesis.com/first25
Yep, looking at pictures phono plugs but an digital in and out connector (??).
Don't know what his mixer has for output connectors.
 
Analog to Digital Convertor.
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_m32ad.php
and the RME unit goes into another unit to get into the computer whatever it all is about.
????????????????
 In other words, I just do not know.
 

Thank you Mike and Spacealf. I didn't even think about what bit's the Adat machine was outputting.
 
Mike - Thanks for the Motu suggestion.  It sounds like you are proposing simply replacing the Adat machines with the Motu (or similar).  That sounds easy enough, just not sure how he will like parting the with Adat machines :)
 
Thanks for suggestions, I will mention this to him.

Currently he tracks to the Adat's.  He then sends a stereo out to his computer to master it.  If he wants to mix individual tracks after the fact, he can only output 2 tracks at a time (in real time) from the Adat's to his computer, because of he has no audio interface and must use the inputs on the back of his PC.  He then plugs all those tracks into Sony Vegas for editing and mixing.  He has been in business a long time and has his own workflow. 
 
I know he will want to incorporate the Adat's.  Just not sure how.  I have never worked with patchbays and don't know the first thing.  I will show him the Motu suggestion and see what he thinks. 

spend some time studying the quality of the audio capture and playback of the adats, and see if it's really worth the investment.
 
 
back in the day, the adat's were the sh!t
 
 
but no more

The MOTO 24 i/o has TRS outputs so you still need something to get into the computer.
 
RME has these (there is a lesser one usually have to search for it on RME:
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSPeRayDAT/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=audio&utm_term=rme_hdspe_raydat&adpos=1t1&creative=14165894161&device=c&network=s&matchtype=b&gclid=CN3IsKW337cCFfBaMgod5hQAlw
 
This one is a 72 channel PCI-e card in the computer (they have a 36 channel one but I don't think it is as flexible as this one for connections).
 
The MOTU won't work without another unit to go into and it has TRS 1/4" outputs looking at it so it a computer card would have to have those 24 kinds of connections to connect to.
To me I doubt it if can be done. Not citing RME to buy at all, just showing what equipment where I can find it you would have to use. RME has mic XLR 8 channels units also like Misestacy however it is spelled or the OctaMic II whatever unit that is, but the
HDSPeRayDAT PCI-e card that allows the connection to whatever AD convertor or such you would get would be where it goes. You can find it over at the RME website, I did last night but have to search again to find the page at RME. They don't list it along with all the other stuff on that page I linked to in previous post.
 
That was to go out of his mixer into the AD convertor which goes by connection into the HDSPeRayDAT card inside of the computer to run the DAW. Actually you could do without his mixer also and just buy mic inputs and outputs and other equipment there also. ?????
 
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_raydat.php
 
found it.
The interfaces depend on which kind of equipment cables you want to connect with, while this one I think has all 3 type of connections AEU/ADAT/whatever it connects with as a path into the computer.
 Oh, the RayDAT has 36 inputs and 36 outputs (I guess for monitors connections or that stuff).
So it is 72 total channels.
 
Well, if he is only two tracks at a time, he should record through a better audio/interface into the computer than a sound card and record all the tracks first into the DAW (24 channels or tracks) then mix down and whatever, because Sonar will Export all the tracks into an outputted 2 track WAVE or possibly *.MP3 file getting the code for that to run it in the DAW or perhaps even burn a CD with the song (songs) afterwards by a Microsoft program or NERO program to make a CD-R CD playable on a CD player or DVD player or such device. After that if you want a regular CD you would have to send the files somewhere where they make a regular CD for sale then.
 
 If he wants to use the ADAT tape machines I would talk to the manufacturer first like RME to make sure that the output of the ADAT tape machine could go into another unit. Oh, ya, it was a digital connector I don't know what kind so I imagine there may not be cable for it anymore so that would be out also. Only a 1/4" cord-based system into the AD convertor could be used then or from the phono outputs of the ADAT tape machine into a 1/4" TRS input of the AD convertor. Cords would have to be made (probably not found without adaptors being used and stuff like that so the connection would be not good as it should be for a studio). (consumer-grade -10dBu stuff instead of studio +4dBu standard whatever it is.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
I have to eat my food getting cold.
I know I babbled on here but the connections have to be there on whatever unit to go into a unit that gets to the DAW (audio/interface) on the MOTU or any equipment used.
 

Okay, here is some more MOTU pictures, and the MOTU does have 20-bit recording also I see.
http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/24IO/specs.html

http://www.motu.com/techs...24-system-requirements

http://www.motu.com/techs.../pci-424-compatibility


the MOTU 24 i/o goes into the pcie-424 or the pci-424 in the computer.
or if the ADAT tape machines have an ADAT connector out into just the PCIe card in the computer and one of those units like the PCIe-424 or RME unit.
Of course I read also that the ADAT tape machines only have a 92dB noise floor level because it is still tape (if you like I guess S-VHS tape sound in which with VCR tape machines or even Beta it also had what was called - FM modulation noise (actually called FM Modulation Distortion) but still close to CD quality which is 96dB floor noise depth.) Hi-fi movies sounded great but not as good as digital nowadays with the 24-bit recording, and I guess FM Modulation Distortion to me did not seem like anything, but that is what they stated in those type of VCR or probably even the ADAT tape machines.
 
The new digital units are probably way better than that and if doing too many dubs on a tape machine that would also raise up the noise floor level and noise would eventually creep into the recording before it got to the DAW inside of the computer. ???????
 
Again the connections in the back of the ADAT tape machines (I did see a picture somewhere searching along reading about those ADAT tape machines which show exactly the back connections on those machines in a bigger picture by searching it up and looking at Images on the search.
 
Whatever and how it can be done will be depend on the back connections - digital if possible out of the ADAT tape machines directly into the PCIe or PCI card in the computer or -- analog along the way until the analog unit changes it to digital and into the card inside of the computer which then is found by the DAW being used.
 
Here's an image almost clear. Are the digital input and output - ADAT???? I do not know. Then you have it looks like 9 pin connectors for sync like an old mouse unit on a computer - serial 9600baud type connector before the PS2 connectors for the mouse were used. (actually called the DB-9 connection after looking at the sweetwater HDSP 9652. So that seems to fit also with that card.
 
http://www.d8apro.com/ebay/ADAT_XTa.jpg
 
that is a picture of an Alesis ADAT XT tape machine being sold on e-bay for $1000 I guess I did not look that long at it.
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSP9652
 
Don't know if the MOTU analog unit is the one that allows 20-bit recording if he has newer ADAT tape machines, or the old ones that only were 16-bit. I don't know about any RME card then or even the MOTU card in the computer, but if 20 bit I suppose the MOTU would fit better for the ADAT tape machines digital out (if it is an ADAT type output and input).
 
Only a card into the computer is needed then.
pcie-424 MOTU
RayDAT
or old one HDSP 9652 RME card.
 
After looking again I don't see where the MOTU- pcie -424 (or pci - 424) card comes separate from the other MOTU unit. It looks as if you have to buy the other analog unit (whatever output) and then the card for the computer comes with that.
 
RME card would be separate (but then 20 bit recording if needed ???)
 
Then the final volume out in probably volts of the ADAT tape machines vs. the input level accepted by the ADAT computer card. (I know some outputs of even consumer stuff long ago may put out a level of up to 2 volts instead of the usual 1 volts depending perhaps, and if that effects the ADAT input and output and all of that - probably in the manual of the ADAT tape machine and Specs of the computer card used. (all that stuff).
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

my fireface has an optical ADAT connector?
 

• Input Digital: 1 x ADAT optical or SPDIF optical, SPDIF coaxial (AES/EBU compatible)

 

Spacealf - Jeff - Robby - AT
 
Thank you for the in depth posts, ideas and information.  I will look this over and offer these ideas to him.  He knows his routing much better than I..so I will have to look at that in more depth.
 
He has, and continues to turn out professional audio recordings, from music to VO to book readings, and Mastering.  But he is really limited with automation, effects etc..all the cool stuff of a modern DAW.  I agree, once he starts learning Sonar, he will say "What the heck have I been doing all this time?!?!" ...atleast that's what I hope he says! 
 
Thank you again for all of your expertise, I will have to pour over these posts a couple times

The wise thing to do is remove the ADAT's all together from the system. The machines themselves are not getting any younger. As they get older they also require a bit more regular maintenance. A head replacement would not be worth doing. They are a bit of a mechanical nightmare. The three of them take up 9 rack units for a 24 IN/OUT device. The MOTU interface is only a single rack unit of space for the same IN/OUT. Think of the other things you can put in there! And quieter (motor noise) too. (from memory they draw around 115 watts I think so three would be using 345  watts of power compared to about 20 watts for the audio interface, stop using so much energy!)
 
There is the issue of having ADAT masters in storage from previous projects. I have quite a few still. You only to keep one machine to be able to transfer anything even if you have sessions that span three tapes.  You can use the ADAT optical connector of course to take 8 channels of audio at once digitally but you could also transfer using the analog IN/OUT of the audio interface if you had to. It would still sound pretty good. (There is an old JLCooper sync box that converts ADAT sync to midi timecode which is very cool. You could find one on ebay. Your DAW will chase lock the ADAT then. It locks up instantly and is super stable.)
 
Playing with ADAT sessions inside a DAW once transferred is fun and there is a lot one can do with those tracks further. Just set the session to 48K sampling rate and away you go. The ultimate device for transferring ADAT's over to a DAW is a system Alesis made called Connect. I have it still. It has a PCI card with ADAT optical IN/OUT and also the sync IN and OUT. The computer takes control of your ADAT. It transfers digitally into folders. If a session is over three tapes it punches the transfer points in and out for all of them so you transfer 8 tracks at a time for each tape in turn but end up with all 24 tracks in a folder in sync ready to import. 

The only challenge is, RME stands for R*** My Exit... They're not cheap. 

Each ADAT optical connector on the rear of each ADAT will only send 8 channels of digital audio. If you wanted to capture or run all three ADAT's at the same time you will need some sort of PCI card (RME ) that accepts at least three ADAT optical connectors. Each ADAT needs to connect to the PCI card for a total of 3 optical connectors or 24 tracks in total. This card is around $1000 though whereas the MOTU option at 24 IN/OUT is only around $1400 which seems a better option to me.
 
I still think it is time to put ADAT's to bed now. There are much more elegant solutions.