estebanworld
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 80
- Joined: 2006/11/01 12:58:04
- Status: offline
Silence before track begins-
Hello, my song is ready to burnt on a cd (at least I think so), but was wondering. How much time of silence should i leave before there is any sound?
I noticed that there are some CD that the player even display a negative countdown (count-up?) like: - 02, -01, song begins ...
Thanks for the advice.
|
CJaysMusic
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 30423
- Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
- Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/21 20:36:07
(permalink)
When I master songs onto a master CD, i leave 2 seconds of silence before the first track starts.
I use CD burning software that allows you to do this. Sonar's CD burning doesn't allow this, as its just a simple CD burning program that doesn't confine to red book specs.
Cj
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/21 21:38:48
(permalink)
As CJ points out 2 seconds is the normal time between songs on a CD...
When I export my tunes and then open them in the wave editor, I will zoom in and trim the start very close to the wave start.... then I add 500ms (1/2 second) of silence to the beginning of my wave.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
mattplaysguitar
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1992
- Joined: 2006/01/02 00:27:42
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 02:27:51
(permalink)
Guitarhacker
As CJ points out 2 seconds is the normal time between songs on a CD...
When I export my tunes and then open them in the wave editor, I will zoom in and trim the start very close to the wave start.... then I add 500ms (1/2 second) of silence to the beginning of my wave.
I like my silence to be recorded silence. The noise of the mics I think should be there, and hopefully that is very very low. Otherwise, when you turn up the stereo really loud, you hear nothing, and then the pre-amp and mic noise kicks in when the music kicks in and it sounds weird. Usually just the noise from one or two mics is plenty to give it a natural silence I think. If you're adding every mic used in the song it might get too loud.
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 08:14:11
(permalink)
mattplaysguitar
Guitarhacker
As CJ points out 2 seconds is the normal time between songs on a CD...
When I export my tunes and then open them in the wave editor, I will zoom in and trim the start very close to the wave start.... then I add 500ms (1/2 second) of silence to the beginning of my wave.
I like my silence to be recorded silence. The noise of the mics I think should be there, and hopefully that is very very low. Otherwise, when you turn up the stereo really loud, you hear nothing, and then the pre-amp and mic noise kicks in when the music kicks in and it sounds weird. Usually just the noise from one or two mics is plenty to give it a natural silence I think. If you're adding every mic used in the song it might get too loud.
Matt... silence is the absence of any sound. No mic noise, nothing. I add the half second of silence simply so there is a very slight delay between clicking start and the music's actual beginning. Aside from "live recordings" you don't "hear" any mic noise on too many records these days. Back in the day of the LP record and cassette's, you had hiss from the media that was unavoidable. With CD's and digital, there is no need to have that hiss or any noise in there unless you want it to be there intentionally. I have never heard one single person complain about the lack of noise between the cuts..... just saying....
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
Slugbaby
Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4172
- Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 09:12:05
(permalink)
Like everyone else has said, 2 seconds is standard.
I prefer a good 4-count of silence at the tempo of the previous song (estimated). Unless they need to be tied together, I find that this gives enough of a breather and usually makes for a comfortable transition.
|
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10654
- Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
- Location: TeXaS
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 12:02:55
(permalink)
You need 2 seconds before the first song starts - but that is a redbook function - your CD burning software should input that for you..
CD architect includes that on its timeline - Pyro (for example) doesn't show it but it is there. So you can start your first song w/ an orch hit and it doesn't matter. And tho the CDA default is 2 second intro and 1 second out (or maybe the reverse - I can't remember) you don't need any time before or after a song. You can fade them over one another, tho it does make placing the new song marker problematic. Some of the non-pro software doesn't do this. I don't think Pyro will.
Artistically, I think it makes more sense to leave silent beats between songs rather than a specific time. You have a toe tapper going - keep the tempo and bring the next song in on that - 2 or 4 or more beats.
If you want a "hidden" track you simply remove the new song marker and put in silence after the last track. Unfortunately you can't do the old record trick of scratching the master to create a repeating skip. Monty python did this on their "tinsdale and the hedgehog" skit when Tinsdale's boys came around. The butthole surfers did it on one of theirs, too. There are others. I don't think making a scratch on your glass master is recommended.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
|
ohhey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11676
- Joined: 2003/11/06 16:24:07
- Location: Fort Worth Texas USA
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 13:47:31
(permalink)
estebanworld
Hello, my song is ready to burnt on a cd (at least I think so), but was wondering. How much time of silence should i leave before there is any sound?
I noticed that there are some CD that the player even display a negative countdown (count-up?) like: - 02, -01, song begins ...
Thanks for the advice.
If you leave 2 seconds in your CD burning software you shouldn't have to put any extra in your songs. However, I tend to leave an extra second on the first song on mine because some older CD players will cut off the start of the first song. Remember that all this is controlled by the table of contents, there are no "tracks" on a CD, just one big chunk of audio. When the CD is put in the player the CD player reads the table of contents to find out where to position the head when playback starts. If there is a gap between where one song ends and the TOC says the next one starts then some CD players will show the countdown. Tom Petty was the first to do this on a major label CD as far as I know. Some CD burning software will let you do that, I know Sony CD Architect and Vegas will both let you set the position of the start and end ID anywhere you want even in the middle of a song and drag them apart to leave a gap if you want a countdown. To make a hidden track you just delete the End/Start IDs between the two songs. When you burn the CD the software will build the table of contents and write it based on those track IDs. Cool stuff once you get the hang of it.
post edited by ohhey - 2010/07/22 13:48:41
|
Jokerman
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 84
- Joined: 2010/01/15 13:16:02
- Location: Manchester
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 15:05:51
(permalink)
|
mcourter
Max Output Level: -41 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3442
- Joined: 2006/02/27 16:57:11
- Location: Los Angeles area
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 15:25:18
(permalink)
I solve the issue by beginning every project at measure 2 and leaving a measure at the end. Rudimentary, but effective.
A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2 Unbridled Enthusiasm My music: www.Soundclick.com/markcourter
|
Legion
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1986
- Joined: 2007/09/20 03:07:46
- Location: Sweden
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/22 16:00:36
(permalink)
For the people that like some mic sound etc instead of dead silence at least make sure the track start at a zero crossing or just put a short fade in at the beggining.
How much silence there should be between songs depend on the songs. As people have said around 2 sec is usually pretty nice but depending on how the first song ends and the secong one starts it can be very wrong as well. Having a long fade out and then a slow intro with 2 sec in between can make it feel like ages.
Oh, putting silence between tracks is part of the mastering process so it don't really matter until you put together an album.
Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
|
dontletmedrown
Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1722
- Joined: 2006/09/09 13:52:26
- Location: Camarillo, CA
- Status: offline
Re:Silence before track begins-
2010/07/23 00:31:25
(permalink)
I think in terms of an album/CD-- I pretty much want the song to start immediately when the user clicks next on their CD player/ipod. Part of the mastering process is to bring the entire project into one session and choose the amount of time between songs. This is where you would chop off any unwanted silence if you haven't already cross-faded it out of the original session. I leave all of the empty space at the end of the tracks. Just about every CD I've ever purchased is setup the same way. Aside from the track1, I have no gaps programmed into the TOC, but everything flows seamlessly just like in the mastering session.
|