Helpful ReplySimple Mastering Techniques???

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johndavidross
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2017/08/04 01:54:17 (permalink)

Simple Mastering Techniques???

I'm still pretty new to the SONAR game. I have some songs roughly recorded and they are mixed down pretty well but they just don't sound great when I export. Mostly it's the volume that I have issue with. I have to crank the volume half way up just to hear anything it seems. I've tried LANDR and it made my tracks sound great or at least way better than I was going for with these recordings. The problem is that I'd like to know how to do it myself if possible with the included tools within SONAR Platinum. Is there an easy few steps that anyone can walk me through?

Thanks!
#1
interpolated
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 02:21:13 (permalink)
Modern mastering pushes beyond the analogue limitatiobs. Therefore -18dBFS is very dynamic although lacks the punch required to gel in with modern digital mastering.

Even though analogue is still used the boost volume in some situations. The digital limitations of distortion after 0dB is the problem.

You need to use Adaptive limiter or something similar like anaximiser to create the extra volume whilst avoiding unwanted clipping (harmonic distortion).

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
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gswitz
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 02:34:59 (permalink)
there are a lot of things do to make recordings sound sweet in the final mix. There is no simple formula.
 
The FX that come with Sonar can do a nice job.
 
Different types of music can sound good using different things.
 
So, there  are a couple of things to think about...
1. Can you hear the interesting things as they happen?
2. Are there nice changes in the song's feel that you can shine a light on?
 
Basically, what I do comes down to a few ideas...
Work with the song and the sound to target an average volume... I pick the volume then work the compression and limiting around that average volume.
 
With EQ and other tools, I try to get a fairly smooth slope from the bass down to the right into the treble. What that slope is depends on the music but the smoothness of it is pretty predictably a target.
 
Little things to try...
Play with the multi-band limiter.
set the compression ration low and the threshold low and listen to the song.
play with raising the levels of different bands.
Put a second multiband after the first one with much higher ratios.
 
Don't lean on the limiter too hard. Adjust volumes and levels in the mix to reduce how aggressive you need to be on the master bus.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#3
35mm
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 03:37:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby johndavidross 2017/08/04 17:14:50
LANDR is pretty useless and can't do anything that you can't do in Sonar. 
 
Some things to get you started. Think of mixing and mastering as being like a paint job on a good guitar. The mix is the wood stain - that lovely sun burst. It looks great and you could just leave it at that. Mastering is the clear coat and the final buffing to make it shine. It's important to remember that if you don't get that sun burst just right with the colours blended just as you want them, then no application of clear coat or buffing will fix it.
 
Think of mixing and mastering as being like a paint job on a good guitar. The mix is the wood stain - that lovely sun burst. It looks great and you could just leave it at that. Mastering is the clear coat and the final buffing to make it shine. It's important to remember that if you don't get that sun burst just right with the colours blended just as you want them, then no application of clear coat or buffing will fix it. You can't polish a turd, so mixing should be a pretty long and laborious process to get the mix just right before you even think of mastering.
 
Mastering should generally involve doing as little as possible and unlike mixing where you may make huge adjustments in EQ and compression, to get that final gloss in the master should involve small, incremental changes. A big mistake a lot of people make is to use all their mastering plugins in the chain just because they have them. If you added compression on your mix, you may not need any more on the master. You only need a multi-band compressor if you have an issue that needs it etc.
 
When you export your mix leave plenty of headroom -6db is good. The first step in your mastering is to add a good limiter to set the level and loudness - don't just crank it up to get it sounding as loud as possible! Use a loudness meter - Youlean Loudness Meter is free! You want the true peak at about -0.1 to -0.2db with between -11 and -12LUFS (integrated) but this all varies according to what media format your music will be played on. So spend a bit of time researching that. You can use Sonar's Adaptive Limiter. My favourite limiter is DMG's Limitless. Your master will now sound louder and fuller. Note although I mention the limiter first because it's so important and usually the first thing you add, it should be the last thing (other than meters/analysers) in your master chain. Everything else should be before it.
 
Next, try a good mix/mastering compressor just to see if it adds a bit of lift/glue - you don't want to hear compression. You're really looking for tone and clarity at this point. Bypass the compressor for before and after comparison. If it doesn't improve anything once setup, don't use it!
 
If something doesn't quite sit right or it sounds a bit muddy on the low end etc, add a multi band compressor using just one band set to the frequency range where the problem is. If that kick drum is a bit too prominent for example, you can fix it with this tool. Sonar's LP MB can be used for this.
 
EQ can now be added to adjust the overall sound, add a bit of sparkle and thump and balance things out. My favourite type of EQs for this are analogue style passive EQs. These can really make the sound come alive and add warmth and brilliance, but don't go over the top.
 
After this there are lots of other things you could do. The most important of which is to check the stereo field. You can also widen the stereo field, add exciters and much more.
 
There are no rules really. This is just a guide, but one rule that you should definitely try when mixing or mastering is the rule of thirds. That is, if you make an adjustment anywhere, back it off one-third. This is because we often over compensate with our ears and that can introduce other problems. If you find you are having to do too much in the mastering phase, you should probably scrap it and go back and mix it again!
 
Lastly, read up on dithering as this is also very important to understand when it comes to mastering as you will inevitably be exporting to a lower bitrate which will introduce quantization errors. Also read up on loudness standards and how that can affect your level on different media such as CD, MP3, ITunes, Spotify, Youtube etc. Over loud masters can now be a disadvantage on the last three platforms and into the future.
 
I hope this helps. With just a few steps you can really make your music come alive and sound so much more professional which to most people's ears also makes it sound better. Before you mix or master a track always calibrate your ears by listening to one or more commercial tracks of a similar genre and use that as a reference for your sound.

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
#4
interpolated
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 08:35:09 (permalink)
Sorry about my last answer. Spell correct gone mad.
 
I think most things are covered here in the previous post however one thing is missing from there I can see is getting the balance right and A/B the results before and after. You can press E to toggle all fx at the same time.
 
Another thing I started to do is setup my levels before I start using any other effects. In other words, making everything peak at 100% and adjust the fader against a pink noise  (mainly because I don't have a treated studio) . If you have a treated studio then all this calibration will most likely be done. The target usually is -20dB RMS pink noise C weighted measuring around 80dB SPL (83dB SPL stereo) which will peak around -3dB or just over due to the random nature of it. This reference point means the loudness coming from your speakers should be universally comparable with other rooms and environments. That's not a given though.
 
Something that gets overlooked is increasing perceived harmonics, so if you have 220Hz prominent then increasing this will enhance 440Hz, 880Hz and so forth until the pitch diminishes. This sometimes will mean the difference between boosting 3dB overall and just adding a psycho-acoustic tweak to your brain into thinking it's louder.
 
www.digido.com have test tones and explanations.
 
Anyway I do hope my small brain fart has helped you a little.
 
I do realise some of this stuff is puzzling however if you don't understand how to control the sound, you might as well try to learn the hard path so what seems unnecessarily difficult becomes second nature. Me, I'm no mastering engineer just have an interest in this sort of thing.
post edited by interpolated - 2017/08/04 22:07:00

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
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Pragi
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 08:47:35 (permalink)
Here a link about a video how to master in 10 minutes,
not bad , but not going deep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Jx2h-lQkA
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slartabartfast
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 09:13:44 (permalink)
If you have to turn the volume way up to hear the recording on a standard playback device, the most likely reason is that you mixed it with the volume turned way up when playing back in SONAR, and used your ears to set the signal power. That is different than the problem of having the peaks so high that you cannot hear the quiet parts, for which compression may be the answer. Before you get into the fine points of mastering check that the saturation of the overall mix is adequate prior to exporting. 
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Marshall
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 09:19:05 (permalink)
For very quick results you could demo the Waves Greg Wells MixCentric and followed by (for example) the Waves L1 limiter. I appreciate they are not included in Sonar, and this is no substitute for the doing a real mastering job, but I think you'll love the difference these will make to your sound.
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patm300e
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 13:10:11 (permalink)
Sonar's own Pro Channel has a few Mastering presets that are OK.  At least they are a start.
 

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chuckebaby
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 13:19:38 (permalink)
There is no simple way around it. to mix and especially master tracks with precision and create a product worthy of listening to, it takes a lot of time, effort and studying.
 
There are many helpful videos on You tube. Problem is, there are also amateur ones that will lead you in the wrong direction. totally  bizarre, back aswards ways of working.
Find good sources and watch, learn and most importantly, listen.
Most important is levels and frequency's.
 
Most people will tell you to trust your ears and they are correct. but if there is any flaws in your monitor set up, then your ears will be lying like a rug. Trust your eyes first.

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#10
KingsMix
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 14:03:55 (permalink)
chuckebaby
There is no simple way around it. to mix and especially master tracks with precision and create a product worthy of listening to, it takes a lot of time, effort and studying.
 
There are many helpful videos on You tube. Problem is, there are also amateur ones that will lead you in the wrong direction. totally  bizarre, back aswards ways of working.
Find good sources and watch, learn and most importantly, listen.
Most important is levels and frequency's.
 
Most people will tell you to trust your ears and they are correct. but if there is any flaws in your monitor set up, then your ears will be lying like a rug. Trust your eyes first.


+100
Well said.
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johndavidross
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 16:07:08 (permalink)
Thank you everyone.
 
My main problem is going to be deciphering what you are all saying. I don't know what a limiter is or does as well as a multi-band limiter and even compression.
 
It sounds like I need to export my mix first and then import that into a mastering template???? I don't master within my project?
 
I need to start with the basics here as I'm very new to this.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 17:10:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby johndavidross 2017/08/04 17:12:52
johndavidross
Thank you everyone.
 
My main problem is going to be deciphering what you are all saying. I don't know what a limiter is or does as well as a multi-band limiter and even compression.
 
It sounds like I need to export my mix first and then import that into a mastering template???? I don't master within my project?
 
I need to start with the basics here as I'm very new to this.


My advice to someone 100% new to this just to get a feeling of what is going on.
 
First Create your mix, make sure the "out" on your channels are going to the Master bus.  Then when you are exporting select Master Bus for your mixdown.  If you leave it as exporting individual tracks as well as the Master bus, it won't sound like what you were mixing in the first place.
 
After you export, open up a new project and load that stereo wav file onto a track, send that to the master bus.  On the master bus add in the LP Compressor and then the Adaptive Limiter after that.  Try some presets there, see what your ears like and take some notes of what the settings are mentally.  
 
Then start going through the LP compressor, AL manuals.
 
Also try the LP EQ, but that is one of those things where I'm guessing you already understand the concept of EQ, so you are just using this one as it is more surgical than other EQs.  
 
In addition - if you don't use Compression within the mix on your individual tracks, you entire mix won't be as loud like the "pros" to get really loud mixes that are common these days, people seems to compresses basically every track, then use mastering compression and limiting to make it even louder...personally I don't like the loudness war, but be aware that your reference track might be following that kind of recipe.  
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paulo
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 17:13:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby johndavidross 2017/08/04 17:14:43
johndavidross
Thank you everyone.
 
My main problem is going to be deciphering what you are all saying. I don't know what a limiter is or does as well as a multi-band limiter and even compression.
 
It sounds like I need to export my mix first and then import that into a mastering template???? I don't master within my project?
 
I need to start with the basics here as I'm very new to this.




There's just no getting away from having to spend a certain amount of time on the learning curve, but Loudmax  
 
 http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=2060
 
is a free and very simple limiter with only two controls that you might find easier to start with. I have al kinds of bells and whistles these days, but still use this one quite often.
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johndavidross
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 17:14:16 (permalink)
Brian, thank you for that. I think I'm going to start there. I have been exporting all tracks and not just the master bus. I will do what you said and experiment with that and then start playing around with what the others said as I learn more of the language.
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Joe_A
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 17:38:21 (permalink)
Brian Walton
johndavidross
Thank you everyone.
 
My main problem is going to be deciphering what you are all saying. I don't know what a limiter is or does as well as a multi-band limiter and even compression.
 
It sounds like I need to export my mix first and then import that into a mastering template???? I don't master within my project?
 
I need to start with the basics here as I'm very new to this.


My advice to someone 100% new to this just to get a feeling of what is going on.
 
First Create your mix, make sure the "out" on your channels are going to the Master bus.  Then when you are exporting select Master Bus for your mixdown.  If you leave it as exporting individual tracks as well as the Master bus, it won't sound like what you were mixing in the first place.
 
After you export, open up a new project and load that stereo wav file onto a track, send that to the master bus.  On the master bus add in the LP Compressor and then the Adaptive Limiter after that.  Try some presets there, see what your ears like and take some notes of what the settings are mentally.  
 
Then start going through the LP compressor, AL manuals.
 
Also try the LP EQ, but that is one of those things where I'm guessing you already understand the concept of EQ, so you are just using this one as it is more surgical than other EQs.  
 
In addition - if you don't use Compression within the mix on your individual tracks, you entire mix won't be as loud like the "pros" to get really loud mixes that are common these days, people seems to compresses basically every track, then use mastering compression and limiting to make it even louder...personally I don't like the loudness war, but be aware that your reference track might be following that kind of recipe.  


Frequencies, levels, power. All of the high pass filters, LPFs, mid-range, dynamic modification, spatial adjusting.

Learn the range of sound we hear and where instruments fall in the spectrum....and adjust as desired. Many people spend lifetimes in just part of the actions needed to perform, record, mix, master.

It's all good. That's what creates new music.

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#16
interpolated
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 17:50:16 (permalink)
Sometimes we all presume too much. I mean, really I just wing it and hope for the best.
 
Compression, Expansion, Limiting, Maximisation, Harmonic Excitation and Gating are part of a group techniques which deal with dynamics. The first four and Gating rely on threshold settings and ratios. Sometimes a mixture of some. 
 
You won't learn any of this stuff overnight. Learn how to use Sonitus compressor in Cakewalk before you bother with something like SSL X-Comp or Fabfilter Pro-C.
 
It's funny the easiest ones to learn are classic emulations which give you less options however sound good nonetheless.  If you need more precision you will need to go the graphical route. 
 
Anyway, the ratio determines how much decibels are reduced at the point of threshold. 2:1 meaning 2dB for every 1dB. The envelope parameters such as Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release are a timed period when the compressor is in use with Release being the time before the sound recovers to the original volume. There are far more detailed and easier explanations to describe this on the web.
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
#17
Joe_A
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 18:28:53 (permalink)
😎 Everything affects the waveform(s) in some way. The waveforms are what we hear. Long live the 'form. In the 'verse.

jambrose@cfl.rr.com  Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE.
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bapu
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 20:11:59 (permalink)
35mm
Think of mixing and mastering as being like a paint job on a good guitar. The mix is the wood stain - that lovely sun burst. It looks great and you could just leave it at that. Mastering is the clear coat and the final buffing to make it shine. It's important to remember that if you don't get that sun burst just right with the colours blended just as you want them, then no application of clear coat or buffing will fix it. You can't polish a turd, so mixing should be a pretty long and laborious process to get the mix just right before you even think of mastering.

Best analogy ever. 
Kudos.
 
#19
bapu
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 20:19:00 (permalink)
I master. I don't Master.
 
m vs M
 
m = getting the best/loud mix for the style/genre while retaining as much of the dynamics on something that am I probably all too familiar (weeks to months of listening, tracking, assembling collaborators' tracks etc.).
 
I master on a song by song basis.
 
If I had and album to drop I'd have a pro Master it.
 
M = someone who can listen to the whole shebang that they have not been in bed with for any length of time. And then make the song to song transition sound as consistent as possible.
 
I not a advanced mastering engineer but I get by. I'm definitely not a pro Mastering Engineer and I won't ever pretend to be (regardless if I own the tools or not).
 
 
#20
David
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/04 23:41:21 (permalink)
While you have some awesome advice , mine would be just through a limiter on your mix to the desired Rms level
and leave it ,  if you have a good monitoring system you will have a decent final product.
   if you are just learning about mastering , you are more likely to mess it up than enhance the song.
     but that would not be as much fun , would it :)

David F

#21
johndavidross
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/07 02:02:39 (permalink)
So how do I export the wav directly from the master bus rather than exporting all tracks together? Thanks!
#22
clintmartin
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/07 02:13:26 (permalink)
I'm sure others have given better advice...but
Have a linear phase EQ at the ready...
Get a nice slow lazy compressor to shave off a couple of dbs's.
Set your limiter to -.3 Peak, and aim for -12 RMS.
That's a simple formula to start with.
 
There's really no simple way as others have said, but that's my attempt at a simple way of doing it.

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#23
clintmartin
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/07 02:15:46 (permalink)
johndavidross
So how do I export the wav directly from the master bus rather than exporting all tracks together? Thanks!



That option should be a preset when you go to export audio files. (I'm not at my daw at the moment or I would tell you what it's called exactly).

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#24
Wood67
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/07 16:16:21 (permalink)
I found a great series of tutorials at http://prosoundformula.com.  The guy provides some excellent intros to mixing and mastering, and the latter I found particularly useful.  I ended up building a mastering template in Sonar based on his workflow and it absolutely made a big difference.  Sign up is free, and there's no subsequent sales push.
 
If you are unsure where to start, and what to apply where and why, I can highly recommend this series.

Wood

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#25
RobWS
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/07 16:45:43 (permalink)
Personally, I am a visual learner.  If I can watch someone do something, I can learn to imitate it.  About 6 months ago I watched a You Tube video of Ian Shepherd mastering a pop song.  In about 30 minutes I was knocked out by this man's ability to show his workflow with such excellence to achieve the end result.  However, because I watched someone who is far greater than I, there is something now that I can try to imitate.  But when you watch someone who is excellent, they make it look easy.  You'll never become a better tennis player by playing an opponent worse that you.  Learn from those who are highly skilled.  What are they listening for, and how do they make what's there better?  It is an amazing craft to learn.  We're all on the same road.
#26
Agentcalm
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/08/09 07:19:50 (permalink)
johndavidross
So how do I export the wav directly from the master bus rather than exporting all tracks together? Thanks!




If you're talking about simply selecting one track to export while ignoring all the other tracks, just click on its track number and it will get highlighted.  When you now export, only that track is exported.   Likewise, you can manually select individual tracks in the same way.     Hope that's what you were asking?

 Southern kin y'all 
#27
johndavidross
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/09/05 19:08:40 (permalink)
Okay, I have been playing around with everyone's suggestions. Here is an acoustic version of one of my band's songs. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
 
https://soundcloud.com/jo...k-mix-4-master/s-BqefM
#28
bapu
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/09/05 19:14:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby johndavidross 2017/09/05 19:16:58
johndavidross
Okay, I have been playing around with everyone's suggestions. Here is an acoustic version of one of my band's songs. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
 
https://soundcloud.com/jo...k-mix-4-master/s-BqefM


There is a songs forum here where you may get more comprehensive advice/comments.
#29
bapu
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Re: Simple Mastering Techniques??? 2017/09/05 19:20:04 (permalink)
All in all not a bad job.
#30
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