Simple sound on sound question

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Geoffrey
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2017/07/20 18:05:03 (permalink)

Simple sound on sound question

I am running sonar Jan 2017.
I want to loop and record, where each loop is immediately audible so I can play over it.  This is so I can switch instruments in a live situation and play over the prior tracks (like a looper).   According to the help file, I should be able to immediately here the prior loop(s) if I use the sound on sound mode.  However, it is silent.  If I stop and rewind, it is all there and playing back, but I want to do this on looping.  Am I missing something?  Help is greatly appreciated.  

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    rsinger
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/20 19:42:02 (permalink)
    Last I checked it doesn't work that way with audio. Midi recording sound on sound does IIRC.

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    #2
    rsinger
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/20 19:44:30 (permalink)
    If you want to do audio looping try Mobius. 
     
    http://www.circularlabs.com/
     
     
     

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    #3
    fantini
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/20 21:16:29 (permalink)
    I'm a bit confused on this as well.  The other night I was trying to record a counterpoint along with what I had already recorded by using take lanes.  If I hit play, I can hear the other recorded midi tracks and play along, but if I record, the original [T1] take lane is silent.  I had sound on sound selected and according to what I've read, the T1 track should be heard as I record an accompaniment on T2.
    #4
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 00:21:50 (permalink)
    Have you tried unchecking "Create new lanes on overlap" ?

    If you don't need every loop (take) in its own lane than give this a shot.

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    #5
    fantini
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 01:57:32 (permalink)
    Chuck, That didn't help.  I might be misinterpreting the purpose of take lanes feature to begin with.  Somehow I thought it would work that way. For now I'll just go back to the old fashioned way of doing it and just insert some additional midi tracks. Not sure if my problem is the same as Geoffrey's. Thanks for your help.
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    Jesse G
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 04:16:28 (permalink)
    It works, I have used it many times. 
     
    Watch this video
     
    If you are recording midi, each instrument has to be on a separate channel, not omni.
     
    Loop recording in Sonar

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    Geoffrey
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 21:25:43 (permalink)
    The video states that in overwrite mode all takes except that last one are muted, implying that they are not in sound on sound mode.  The manual explicitly states this.  In the help file page for "comping methods," there is a table.  One column is labeled "Hear existing material while recording?," in the the row for sound on sound, it says "yes."  Therefore I'm flummoxed. (Mobius really won't give me all the capabilities I want).  Perhaps this means only for midi, but it ought to work for audio.  Surely such a simple thing ought to be possible.  I have tried every permutation of the options in the recording settings page.  Insights?

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    #8
    rsinger
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 22:46:48 (permalink)
    The audio sound on sound has never worked like a looper when I have tried it.
     
    The reference guide says
     
    The new material is merged with any existing material. This means that any existing clips on the track are left unchanged and all newly recorded material is stored in new clips. While recording, you will be able to hear material from existing clips.
     
    The manual does say existing clips. If you record a clip and stop recording so you have a clip and then create a loop over that and record you will hear the clip you just recorded and you will hear what you are currently playing, but you won't hear previous takes in the clip that is currently being recorded.
     
    I think it works as described in the reference guide, although that may not be what you want.

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    #9
    Jesse G
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/21 23:52:26 (permalink)
    Not sure what everyone else is doing, but this is how I perform loop recording in Sonar Platinum
     
    In Preferences > Project > Record
     
    I select the following:
     
    Comping
    I select Auto Punch and check off "Mute Previous Takes" and then uncheck Auto Punch
    Store Takes Lanes in Separate Tracks
    Create New Lanes on Overlap
    New Take Lanes on Top
    Do not Group Tracks
     
    Once this is configured, I save the project and then close and re-open the project. (May not be needed, but that's just me.)
     
    I select the desired loop points. 
    I insert my Soft Synth
    Arm the track and begin playing the synth.
    On each loop pass, I only hear the part that I an playing and the previous parts played have been muted and are in take lanes.
     
    Try it.

    Peace,
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    #10
    Geoffrey
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/22 16:38:42 (permalink)
    Thanks, but what I want is to hear the previous pass(es) as I record.  In other words, use it as a looper.  I would have thought that such a simple capability would be available.


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    #11
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/22 21:40:48 (permalink)
    is it for Audio or midi or both ? <- Its important.
    This may have been specified but I didn't see it in the OP.

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    #12
    Jesse G
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/23 15:30:18 (permalink)
    Geoffrey
    Thanks, but what I want is to hear the previous pass(es) as I record.  In other words, use it as a looper.  I would have thought that such a simple capability would be available.



    Oh, them un-select Comping and just select Sound on Sound
     
    Select these options:
     
    Sound on Sound
    Store Takes Lanes in Separate Tracks
    Create New Lanes on Overlap
    New Take Lanes on Top
    Do not Group Tracks
     
    Once this is configured, I save the project and then close and re-open the project. (May not be needed, but that's just me.)
     
    I select the desired loop points. 
    I insert my Soft Synth
    Arm the track and begin playing the synth.
    On each loop pass, I only hear the part that I an playing and the previous parts played are in take lanes.

    Peace,
    Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
    ==============================
    Cakewalk and I are going places together!

    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
    #13
    Geoffrey
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/24 19:18:03 (permalink)
    OP: This is for audio.  My goal is to play an instrument live, loop it and pick up another layer and/or instrument.  In other words, use sonar as a looper.  As I indicated, I can't figure out how to get the previous loop(s) to play back immediately without stopping and restarting sonar.  

    Win7 64 bit, I&-3770, two hard drives, 16 gigs ram, MOTO 24i with PCI 424 card. 
    #14
    Geoffrey
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/24 19:25:40 (permalink)
    PS: Selecting sound-on-sound does NOT work.  I still have to stop and restart to here loop 1, otherwise I hear only what I am recording (loop 2) without loop 1.  I tried autopunch with "mute previous tracks" deselected as well; still no luck.  I have tried just about every permutation of options in the recording dialogue box.  Perhaps there is something I need to set elsewhere?  
     

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    #15
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/24 19:36:10 (permalink)
    Ya its not working here either (Sound on sound/with Audio/with looping enabled).
    So you are correct, cant hear previous takes with Sound on sound when looping is enabled.
    post edited by chuckebaby - 2017/07/24 22:07:22

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    #16
    Geoffrey
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/26 20:05:27 (permalink)
    Well, glad to know that it is confirmed.  I'll call them and see what they say.

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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/26 20:19:12 (permalink)
    There is no phone support my friend.
    Loop recording in sonar isn't per say like a looping pedal. It for making multiple takes for individual passes.

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    #18
    Anderton
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/26 20:47:32 (permalink)
    SONAR isn't designed for live performance-style looping. However TH3 has a looper, and while I haven't tried the following, you may be able to set it up in an Aux bus. Then when you want a specific instrument to feed it, turn up that track's Aux Send and loop it within TH3.
     
    I can't think of any DAWs offhand that does live looping by itself. Ableton Live started including a Looper plug-in around version 7 or 8, so you might want to take a cue from them - I think the plug-in approach (e.g., the free Mobius one mentioned earlier) is probably your best bet.
     
    I've done looping in SONAR without recording per see by feeding a plug-in delay's output set for a long delay time back into SONAR using the external insert. However then you have the usual old-school looping problem of what happens when there's not enough signal to feed back any more.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Simple sound on sound question 2017/07/26 22:19:09 (permalink)
    Anderton
    I've done looping in SONAR without recording per see by feeding a plug-in delay's output set for a long delay time back into SONAR using the external insert. However then you have the usual old-school looping problem of what happens when there's not enough signal to feed back any more.



    This is the workaround I've suggested in the past, but it's not necessary to use External Insert if the delay plugin has Feedback setting as most do, and if you set it to 100%, the level shouldn't decay.
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3471262
     
    - Insert a delay capable of very long delay intervals in the audio track, and set the delay equal to the loop length.
    - Set the Feedback to 100% with a 50/50 Wet/Dry mix. 
    - Enable new layers (now lanes) on overlap, and record away.
    - Each new loop will be repeated endlessly by the delay, but each recorded layer will contain only what you played on that pass.
    - Use a keybinding to stop the audio engine after stopping the transport to kill the delay feedback. 

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