Voda La Void
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Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
Always loved playing this tune. Now that I'm trying to grasp theory a little bit, I'm actually confused on how this one works. I think the original was in C#, but like everybody else, I play it in C.
The main verse progression is simply C major, A minor, F minor to G major. (During the super high slidey intro phrase it actually goes to F major, and that would seem to be all in the key of C. But that's not the part that's confusing.)
What key or keys are we going to when it goes to F minor to G major? At that point in the melody, it's playing two finger chords that include F-G-G#...that G# is screwing up my day. It's beautiful, but it's turning my brain a little.
I would have guessed maybe the key is actually G#, which would make F minor aolean natural, but then you wouldn't have a G major chord, you should have a G diminished, right? How does that G# melody work over the second part of this progression?
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bitflipper
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/19 18:22:52
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I recorded a cover of this song a couple years ago. I just think of it as being in the key of C with some weird/stretched chords thrown in, like Fresh Garbage by Spirit. Such liberties just fit the pedal steel's inherent pitch fluidity. I guess you could make a case that it's actually in Eb.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/20 22:37:06
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bitflipper
I recorded a cover of this song a couple years ago. I just think of it as being in the key of C with some weird/stretched chords thrown in, like Fresh Garbage by Spirit. Such liberties just fit the pedal steel's inherent pitch fluidity. I guess you could make a case that it's actually in Eb.
Nice cover, Dave!
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bitflipper
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/22 18:25:12
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Thanks, John. I'd love to revisit that tune someday. Sadly, it's one of the many projects that disappeared with my computer.
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joakes
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/22 20:23:31
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markno999
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/23 21:14:37
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☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/07/24 13:04:26
Voda,
It's all C. I think they played the original in C# due to steel guitar tuning.
If we are thinking about the same part, the melody is a result of a tritone substitution, or, as an altered G7.. When the chord progression goes to Fm with F in the melody, to G in the melody to G#, you can play a Db9 under the G# melody. You could play C, Am, Fm, Db9. Db9 is the tritone sub for G7. Alternative, you could also think of the G# as the b9 of G7 and play a G7b9, if you are sticking to the C, Am, Fm, G progression. A diminished scale works there for sure if soloing or looking for some fills.
Regards
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Voda La Void
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/24 13:04:22
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Ugh...just when a fella gets comfortable with the rules...
I thought a G7 would simply be adding the 7th scale degree from G, whatever key you're in. So, for G, I would have thought a G7 would have a f#, which is a beautiful sound I've used in a few places over the years. But, now I'm reading that a G7 contains an F, is in the key of C (or Am), and that you wouldn't actually have a G7 in the key of G. Weird. Totally weird.
So then what is the chord when I play a G7 except fretting the F#?
I thought these chords were simpler than that, and you could just count the scale positions to determine the number, based on the key of the scale. Now it looks like I need to understand dominants and all that...pita.
Now the confusion of the G# note playing over the G chord of this song doesn't seem that bad after all...
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markno999
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/24 16:38:15
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Voda,
The G chord with F# in the would be a Gmaj7, a G dominant 7th has F instead. The dominant 7th is generally a leading chord as the sound is pushing to resolution. In Sleepwalk, the G7 is leading to the C. Maj7 chords have a different function, usually.
You can absolutely play a G7 in the key of G. In that case the G7 is generally going to be pushing to the 4 chord, or C.
Once you get these sounds in your head it will make a lot more sense, theory alone can be confusing.
Regards
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Voda La Void
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/24 23:53:04
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markno999
Voda,
The G chord with F# in the would be a Gmaj7, a G dominant 7th has F instead. The dominant 7th is generally a leading chord as the sound is pushing to resolution. In Sleepwalk, the G7 is leading to the C. Maj7 chords have a different function, usually.
You can absolutely play a G7 in the key of G. In that case the G7 is generally going to be pushing to the 4 chord, or C.
Once you get these sounds in your head it will make a lot more sense, theory alone can be confusing.
Regards
Yeah it's definitely confusing, but at least now I have a better understanding of the dominant 7th chord and why it's called a major-minor and how that relates to the major 7th chord and the minor 7th. Db9 substitution...that's tomorrow's assignment!
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/24 23:53:54
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Hey V L V, I think it is very cool that you are stretching out with your playing. It has been very informative reading all the posts about modes and chords and theory. I can't wait to hear your next song on the forum. I hope you use some of what you have learned.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/25 11:44:11
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Jesse Screed
Hey V L V, I think it is very cool that you are stretching out with your playing. It has been very informative reading all the posts about modes and chords and theory. I can't wait to hear your next song on the forum. I hope you use some of what you have learned.
Yeah, it's interesting isn't it? What's really cool, is that after 30 years of playing an instrument I feel like I'm rediscovering it all, which has lit up my riff writing and I've stepped up my game a bit. It's really exciting, actually. I can't wait to start laying tracks. Got a few months to go before I have my studio space...
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jamesg1213
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/25 11:49:58
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markno999
Voda,
The G chord with F# in the would be a Gmaj7, a G dominant 7th has F instead. The dominant 7th is generally a leading chord as the sound is pushing to resolution. In Sleepwalk, the G7 is leading to the C. Maj7 chords have a different function, usually.
You can absolutely play a G7 in the key of G. In that case the G7 is generally going to be pushing to the 4 chord, or C.
Once you get these sounds in your head it will make a lot more sense, theory alone can be confusing.
Regards
That's interesting, been trying that out. Mind you, I'm now having trouble stopping myself playing a Bm instead of a G7, they sound the same to me 
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markno999
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/25 15:37:14
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☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2018/07/25 15:44:50
James, of course Bm would work as well, just make sure everyone else is playing Bm instead of G7. F against F# generally doesn't sound too good:) You could also just play G/B instead of the Bm and not clash with the people playing G7.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/26 13:16:22
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markno999
James, of course Bm would work as well, just make sure everyone else is playing Bm instead of G7. F against F# generally doesn't sound too good:) You could also just play G/B instead of the Bm and not clash with the people playing G7.
Oddly enough, the explanation from Quora read pretty well but this bit here seems ridiculous, ha ha: "Basically, no matter what chords are in your given key, you can add a dom7 chord a fifth away from every one of those naturally occurring chords to your chord pallet. It only wont apply to diminished chords that exist in your key." Lucky for me, I actually can't stand the dominant 7th sound. I won't be working too hard to unpack this, but it is interesting, nonetheless.
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markno999
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/26 17:04:14
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☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2018/07/26 20:16:21
Voda,
I agree with you, the Dom7th can be a super cheesy sound, but it can also be about context. For example, a Dom7th is a predominant sound in Pink Floyd's Brain Damage, that is a pretty cool song.
Or take a song like Something written by George Harrison. the progression goes C, CMaj7, C7. In this case the C7 sounds pretty cool and is pushing to the F that follows.
Lot of rock and pop music uses dominant 7th sounds for descending lines. Ex, you are playing A to F#m and your bass player sticks a G in in the bassline between the A and F#m, that is A7 with the dominant 7th in the bass.
I think it helps to study these things in music you like or listen to rather than focusing simply on music theory. Theory and be mind numbing and paralyzing. I know people that have problems soloing because they are so focused on which mode they should be in, that they are either not playing musical sounding solos, are playing boring scales, or are just lost. I am not saying not to study theory, but take it slow and apply it to where you are and what you are interested in, then you will retain it and use it going forward. Main thing is not to get discouraged with theory because there is a lot of theory out there that is very poorly presented.
Regards
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Voda La Void
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Re: Sleep Walk by Santo and Johnny - What Keys?
2018/07/26 20:16:15
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markno999
Voda,
I agree with you, the Dom7th can be a super cheesy sound, but it can also be about context. For example, a Dom7th is a predominant sound in Pink Floyd's Brain Damage, that is a pretty cool song.
Or take a song like Something written by George Harrison. the progression goes C, CMaj7, C7. In this case the C7 sounds pretty cool and is pushing to the F that follows.
Two of my favorite artists and one of my favorite all time songs. Point taken, my friend.
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