Slip editing clips

In previous versions of Sonar I could slip edit a clip to any degree I wanted regardless of Snap To Grid settings.  Now, in X1, the Snap To Grid setting determines how much I can slip edit.  IOW, if it's set to measure, I can only slip edit by measures.  In order to get a finer resolution, I must disable Snap To Grid.  I just looked this up in X1 manual, and it is indeed the case that Snap to Grid influences slip editing.  I regard this as a minor setback in workflow, as I slip edit a lot, and I usually set Snap to Grid by the measure, and now I have to turn it off and back on to do what I need.  Just a minor point, but I would like to see CW go back to the way it was.  Does anybody else agree?
Thanks for listening,
Lynn

Positively Charged


I think you can temporarily disable it with a Key Binding, but I don't remember which one.  Alt?  Not sure.

Disable what?  I know how to disable Snap to Grid.  I just referenced slip editing in the manual (pg 376-378), and nothing is mentioned how to disengage slip editing from Snap to Grid settings with key binding.  If anyone knows how to do this I would welcome that information.

yes, it's one more step backwards.

I enjoyed this feature as well Lynn.

I'm not at my DAW but isn't as easy as hitting F12 to turn of snap, make your slip and then F12 back to turn on snap again?

I know I'm comparing a 1 step process to 3 steps... but this is a work flow improvement.


Good Luck.

best regards,
mike

thegeek


Huh? Slip editing was always relative to snap settings here.

I'm guessing a lot of people never noticed that for example if you had your snap set at whole measure that you could still slip edit of the grid by small amounts intentionally, or unintentionally.

I found this very convenient.

best regards,
mke

thegeek


Huh? Slip editing was always relative to snap settings here.

I just opened an old file on 8.5.3 with the Snap to Grid setting set to measure and was able to slip edit to the Nth degree without changing or turning off Snap to Grid.  Also, nothing in the 8.5.3 help menu says it is dependent on the Snap to Grid resolution.

I just opened a new file in 8.5, made a dummy midi clip and slip edits snap to measures. MAGNETISM OFF

edit: I'd suggest you try again in X1 with magnetism on. This will be what you are looking for.

Lynn and Mike,

magnetism on or off in earlier versions? See also my above post in case you missed it

I think it is good to have it snap- turn off snap if ya dont want it to cuz slip edit to snap is also usefule

Just do me the favour and not assume things 10Ten. It seems that people are too quick to question people's knowledge of the program. Read what the feature is supposed to do in the manual.

ONLY with magnetism on you are allowed to move freely away from snap settings - what Mike and Lynn above describe.
And right now Im quite positive neither Mike nor Lynn knew it too.

It wouldnt hurt you to test its behaviour before replying.

thegeek


I just opened a new file in 8.5, made a dummy midi clip and slip edits snap to measures. MAGNETISM OFF

edit: I'd suggest you try again in X1 with magnetism on. This will be what you are looking for.

Thank you, this is the answer I was looking for.  I never quite understood how the magnetism worked, nor did I relate it to slip editing.  Well done.

one of the first things I discovered in X1 is that magnetism settings work a little differently.

but for this , yes magnetism obviously is the feature to adjust! cool!

I just keep mine off and toggle snap cuz I like my snap to really SNNAAAPP!!! lol

Okay, I just did some testing here because this is all new to me (in Sonar) and I wanted to make sure I understand it correctly and learn to use it in whatever way is best for me.  First off, I found that my earlier memory of "alt" was completely wrong.

Second, I found that as Mike says, F12 does indeed toggle snap on or off.

Finally, after much more testintg, I learned that when you have magnetism set, how strong it seems to be will depend on two factors:

• Your preferences setting (Shift-F12) for magnetism strength, your choices are off, low, medium, or high.
• Your zoom level in the Track View.

I began my testing with snap set to "Measure" and toggled on.  When I was zoomed wayyy in, I found that even with magnetism set to "high", I could easily slip edit the end of a MIDI clip back and forth between bars (almost seemingly to the "Nth degree" as coined by a prior poster here).

But as I zoomed out, I found that I had less control.  At one point of "zoomed outedness" I could no longer slip to any interval smaller than a measure and had to switch to "Magnetism = Low" in order to have any semblance of control.  Set to low, I regained quite a bit of control, but the project was so far zoomed out that there's no way I could expect my aim to be accurate.

My conclusion is that the snap grid works in degrees based on the preferences and project zoom level.  To me it seems to be quite configurable. 

And of course, there's always F12 if you just want it off for the moment or forever.

Positively Charged


Okay, I just did some testing here because this is all new to me (in Sonar) and I wanted to make sure I understand it correctly and learn to use it in whatever way is best for me.  First off, I found that my earlier memory of "alt" was completely wrong.

Second, I found that as Mike says, F12 does indeed toggle snap on or off.

Finally, after much more testintg, I learned that when you have magnetism set, how strong it seems to be will depend on two factors:

• Your preferences setting (Shift-F12) for magnetism strength, your choices are off, low, medium, or high.
• Your zoom level in the Track View.

I began my testing with snap set to "Measure" and toggled on.  When I was zoomed wayyy in, I found that even with magnetism set to "high", I could easily slip edit the end of a MIDI clip back and forth between bars (almost seemingly to the "Nth degree" as coined by a prior poster here).

But as I zoomed out, I found that I had less control.  At one point of "zoomed outedness" I could no longer slip to any interval smaller than a measure and had to switch to "Magnetism = Low" in order to have any semblance of control.  Set to low, I regained quite a bit of control, but the project was so far zoomed out that there's no way I could expect my aim to be accurate.

My conclusion is that the snap grid works in degrees based on the preferences and project zoom level.  To me it seems to be quite configurable. 

And of course, there's always F12 if you just want it off for the moment or forever.

Doesn't that seem bass ackwards? In 8 it really seems that magnetism does exactly the opposite which is what makes sense. If magnetism is on high it would be more likely to be pulled toward the magnet not freer.

mike_mccue


So what does the term magnetism mean?

For years I assumed it meant that it related to what you are saying... that it effected the "willingness" of the clip to overcome it's "inertia" and start moving. Or to put it another way that it began the snap to process from further away from the snap to point.

Which makes the preconditions for the functionality described by the OP seem sort of counter intuitive. I never considered the magnetism because i thought it did the exact opposite of allowing me to slide off the grid.

If that makes sense.

I can accept this is the arbitrary precondition required... but I'm wondering if I need to evolve my understanding of what the term Magnetism implies?

Like for example; is the cursor the source of the "attractive force"  rather than the next snap point I think is?

If that makes sense?

Thanks thegeek, Scott, Lance et. al.

best regards,
mike

I've never messed with it in 8.5 and it always worked right, but on further inspection it works exactly opposite of what I'd think. If off it snaps dead to the snap setting. If on high it pretty much ignores it. It was set to medium by default so back it goes.

Actually it has two settings and one of settings has 3 strengths. When it's off it snaps to the snap setting or does nothing. On low, mid or high it is pulled to the snap setting if snap is on to the degree of the magnetism setting. Works exactly like I would think.

Hi Mike:

Well, this impression is from a Sonar X1 newbie with no prior experience in this area (with Sonar).

In the context of clip movement, sizing, and general management, I think of magnetism as the force between the thing I am moving and the guideposts that dot the landscape.

It doesn't matter much which is the magnet and which is the piece of iron, in this case, they both attract when brought close enough together.

And my observation is that this applies when moving a whole clip or when "slip editing".  By the way, I think of setting up clip looping, shortening, and lengthening, and that treadmill-slip thing (can't remember the name, but do remember the cool video chapter) as all variants of slip editing. 

As the boundary of the clip passes the guidepost it will either be attracted to said guidepost (measure, 1/4, etc) or not, and with varying degrees of intensity (and likewise, varying degrees of "stickiness"). 

It seem to me that the "net effect" to the user will depend on those factors I mentioned in my prior post:  Toggle on or off, Magnetism on, low, med, or high, and finally, zoom level.

It may be too early for me to say (and I certainly reserve the right to change my mind), but for now I think my preferred way of working will be to leave snap on and have magnetism set to "high"...  Depending on the song and the type of editing I'm doing, I'll probably most often use measure, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 as one of the intervals; changing fairly often depending on the task at hand.

And finally, as to my impression:  I like it.  The buttons are big and clear on the Control Bar.  The color bright blue for "activated" and dark for "deactivated" suits me fine.  Hence, it should be easy for me to access and use.