Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me

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Kev999
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2014/04/15 05:04:26 (permalink)

Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me

I wasn't sure whether or not to post this in the Songs forum, as this is less about the song (which I didn't write) and more about the arrangement.  Anyway, this is my version of a song based around a supplied vocal stem:
https://soundcloud.com/kevs-music/namastessong
[Updated link to new mix 17May2014]
 
My contribution
I take no credit for the song itself, although I did make a few amendments to the existing chord structure. All of the instrumental parts were my creations though and were not in the original version of the song. The orchestral interlude is entirely mine too.
 
Varying tempo
The vocal was apparently not recorded to a click track, but to an acoustic guitar, so consequently the tempo fluctuates considerably. I resisted the temptation to make it constant tempo throughout but compromised and made a few amendments so that it does not vary as wildly. Maybe I should have done a better job though. My driving drum pattern makes some of the residual tempo fluctuations a bit too obvious to the listener.
 
Choice of instruments
It's such a fine vocal performance that I wanted to keep the vocal part prominent and not have it competing too much with the instruments. I found a suitable bass sound, 80s-style synth bass, that keeps away from the vocal frequencies without hiding in the background. But I also wanted to avoid everything becoming too smooth. I avoided the obvious DX electric piano which would have been to cheesy an opted for a clunky Wurly instead. The contrasting textures seem to work ok.
 
Arrangement
I stuck with the original vocal stem, but inserted an instrumental section after the second chorus. For contrast between different sections, I used a choir pad on each chorus, a hammond organ (NI B4II) on the first half of each verse and nothing for the second half of the verse. Paradoxically, the "nothing" (i.e. nothing accompanying the vocals other than drums, bass and e-piano) seems to have the most impact. The choir pad ducks the vocals (I think I used Sonitus Gate for that but I can't recall). The third chorus has lots of bits of percussion, noises and hits. The fourth chorus has sequenced synths.
 
Orchestra
The melody for the orchestral interlude suggested itself after listening to the song a thousand times and it was in my head everywhere I went. I also wrote a similar introduction leading up to the first verse but didn't use it in the end.  I used 10 instances of Miroslav Philharmonik altogether.
 
Comments welcome, especially negative ones.
post edited by Kev999 - 2014/05/16 17:59:05

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    The Band19
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/04/15 20:32:13 (permalink)
    I'm not a big fan of her abilities, I think you did a decent job with the mix. She's a little too wet in the mix (IMO) I would have made the orchestra a little wetter in places :-) It's the wetness that binds us? And divides us...

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    #2
    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/04/17 20:54:21 (permalink)
    The Band19
    ...She's a little too wet in the mix (IMO) I would have made the orchestra a little wetter in places...



    I think agree, certainly about the orchestra anyway.  I'll go back and try again. 
     

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    olemon
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/02 06:28:48 (permalink)
    Kind of a Sade sounding vocalist and groove to this.  It's pleasant enough, I like it.  When the horns first come in they are hotter than the previous music, those strings at 2:54 are real hot and the strings don't seem to have any reverb.  Yeah, the string and horn sections just don't match the vocal sections.  But, I think you can deal with that fairly easily.
     
    I hope you'll make some adjustments to the mix and repost.
     
     

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/03 04:52:43 (permalink)
    Thanks for the pointers. I'm working on it right now.
     

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    teego
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/03 13:03:11 (permalink)
    I agree with what has been stated above. I think the reverb on the vocal is not so much about how much you have on it but how long it is ,if you shorten it where it doesn't tail out so long I think it might fix that. Also ,agree that some of the instrumentation sounds a little dry, particularly the piano. Also, agree that the horns are a little hot when they come in. Good job on the arrangement, it is not easy to match tempo and  make things fit well, but you accomplished that..

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/03 22:05:50 (permalink)
    The wet vocal originally belonged to another project and to an earlier, more acoustic, version of the song. Altering it would be feasible, except that a pad that I have used in the choruses has been set up to "duck" the vocal, so I would need to re-do the pad too. I can't remember exactly what I did or how I did it, as it was 4 years ago. Maybe I'll leave the vocal as it is for now and focus on the other issues.

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    The Band19
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/03 23:15:58 (permalink)
    I'm digging the organ? And the song overall.

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/03 23:34:49 (permalink)
    The Band19
    I'm digging the organ?...



    I used 2 instances of NI B4II with almost the same settings and mostly playing in unison but with the rotators out of sync with each other.

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    The Band19
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/04 00:15:09 (permalink)
    Man that's the same friggen trick I use! No wonder I liked it! 
     
    And I sweep pan them a bit also slightly out of phase. And I like to actually use two different presets, one is soul explosion, and the other is more percussive, and I also automate the volume on both one up a bit, the other down a bit, and then vice versa, in time with the music. It's a lot going on with just the organ? But it makes it sound fat...

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    rebel007
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/05 08:42:17 (permalink)
    Hi Kev, for me the song is about the vocal and I felt the instrumentation was almost too loud to the point of distraction, the vocal needed to be louder and more up front, I felt like I was being forced to listen to the instruments and I couldn't concentrate on the singer. Don't get me wrong, there was nothing wrong with the instrumentation in and of itself, just the balance was wrong.

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/05 20:28:14 (permalink)
    rebel007
    Hi Kev, for me the song is about the vocal and I felt the instrumentation was almost too loud to the point of distraction, the vocal needed to be louder and more up front, I felt like I was being forced to listen to the instruments and I couldn't concentrate on the singer. Don't get me wrong, there was nothing wrong with the instrumentation in and of itself, just the balance was wrong.



    So, which particular instruments are getting in the way? Drums maybe? I have tried it with the vocal dominating all the way through, but it sounded a bit boring, as the vocal does not vary much throughout the song. Instead I just tried to make the vocal more prominent in the second half of each verse (i.e. after the organ fades out).

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/10 21:36:38 (permalink)
    OK, I've addressed all the issues brought up in this thread.  Many thanks to Band19, olemon, teego and rebel007 for pointing them out.  Here's the latest mix:
    https://soundcloud.com/kevs-music/namastessong15

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    The Band19
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/10 21:48:45 (permalink)
    I like this a lot better... Good job! That organ still sounds killer. She's a bit wet on the chorus though IMO. I understand you're going for a different feel there. (the high instrument in my right ear) right @ 2:40, not sure if it's a flute or a woodwind, but it could come down a smidge (listened in the cans) 

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/11 00:21:31 (permalink)
    The Band19
    ...(the high instrument in my right ear) right @ 2:40, not sure if it's a flute or a woodwind, but it could come down a smidge...



    Oboes.  OK, I'll reduce it a bit.  

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    teego
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/11 10:01:36 (permalink)
    Sounds better!  I second what Robby said above !
    edit:  I listened on speakers though!

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/12 20:57:49 (permalink)
    Further adjustments made. New version here:
    https://soundcloud.com/kevs-music/namastessong16

    I hope I haven't messed anything up.

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    teego
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/12 22:22:16 (permalink)
    Sounds pretty good to me. My only other suggestion would be to bring the intro up to closer match the vocal when it starts. The volume  jumps up when she starts singing and it startles you a little. I didn't notice that before but if you look at the wave picture file you can see the volume difference. Good job on it !

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/12 23:07:29 (permalink)
    teego
    ...The volume  jumps up when she starts singing and it startles you a little...



    I'd increased the level on the first syllable of the vocal because I thought it lacked impact. Maybe I shouldn't have done this.
     
    By the way, in the latest mix I made the vocal track mono in the final choruses where the mix is much busier than the early choruses and was getting lost. It seems to make a difference.

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    rebel007
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/13 09:32:21 (permalink)
    The vocal really stands out front now. There is nothing boring about it, it tells a story and is worth hearing. I always try to imagine what I would think if I walked into a venue, or even a studio control room, and heard the song being played live. What would I think of the mix, and would I be engaged by the song. I think you've got it a lot closer now.

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    Kev999
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    Re: Smooth female vocal + synth bass + clunky e-piano: works for me 2014/05/16 18:55:54 (permalink)
    For the last few days I was having problems with the project, apparently due to accidentally pressing some shortcut key resulting in some bizarre behaviour which was inexplicable for a while but was easily sorted out in the end (details in this thread if anyone is interested).

    So here's the latest mix:
    https://soundcloud.com/kevs-music/namastessong
    The vocals are slightly more prominent again and this seems to work ok. I'm wondering if the pad used in the choruses is now too intrusive in some places though.

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