Helpful ReplySo Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...)

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splinetime
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2016/10/04 15:57:55 (permalink)

So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...)

Greetings,
I have done a lot of programs on computers, used real life hardware synths, video production and sound.... I believe I may have finally reached my capacity for intuiting software topology :)
 
Finally, I'm digging into Sonar. Using an instrument like z2ta, dimension, synthmaster, etc I have read that:
1-you assign the patch inside the interface. Got It.
2-Instrument definition files are for Hardware synths. Got it.
3-With some soft synths you can use the Channel/Bank/Patch in inspector or console. Got It
 
Is there absolutely know way to have sonar send out a "hey rapture, set so & so patch, before I start playing" signal?
 
It seems to be a huge defect in this system, because if (say for example) I'm noodling around, auditioning patches, playing with technique, etc and I accidentally leave the synth on a "wrong" patch for that song, then I hit play, the performance info is not going to tell the synth, hey jump to patch so & so. My spectacular opus then fails to start with the tender strain of an oboe and instead the 'thunder crunch fart monster blat" patch scares the audience into a heart attack> :)
 
Am I missing something obvious? Any assistance or illumination appreciated.
 
Kevin L
 

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telecharge
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/04 19:04:57 (permalink)
Hey, Kevin. It depends on the instrument. Synthmaster, for example, supports setting a default preset (patch) as well as state saving.
post edited by telecharge - 2016/10/04 19:26:32
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splinetime
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/04 19:46:06 (permalink)
And that's where I'm feeling dense. I've been trying to do an in depth read and get up to speed, but some of this (I think more in terminology) is not clicking. State saving? would that be like a "snapshot" or an event.
 
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telecharge
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/04 19:48:54 (permalink)
State saving means that the plug-in will be in the same state you left it when you reopen it.
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splinetime
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/05 00:41:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby telecharge 2016/10/05 04:31:30
there is an ah-ha in that! Thank You... saving the state.
So straight forward I never would have figured it out
 
Thank You

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ricoskyl
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/07 20:14:11 (permalink)
I think we'd all like some sort of communication between SONAR and plugins that would populate patch selection right in the SONAR interface.

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splinetime
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/10 23:37:15 (permalink)
Yes, because sometimes under the influence of the creative muse I do not leave my synth in the state I desire :)
 
Kevin L

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robert_e_bone
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/16 23:51:54 (permalink)
Well - most of the midi files out on the web will have embedded bank/preset info at the beginning of each track's midi data, and that gets sent out to each track prior to playback.
 
And at least there used to be a place on each track to set the bank/preset info somewhere down near the bottom of any given midi track.
 
I usually don't mess with a given instrument once I have it set the way I want, and Sonar just remembers the loaded instrument for any given synth instance when the project loads.  If I mess around with a potentially different preset for a given instrument, I usually either make sure I don't save it with that set of changes, OR most often - I will load up a new instance of whatever that synth is and insert a new midi and audio track with routing to the new synth and whatever I wish to try for alternative presets, then when I have settled on replacing it - I usually load the same preset in the original instance and delete the new tracks and instance I used to preview presets.
 
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splinetime
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/17 09:20:58 (permalink)
Yes, that seems to be the the workflow. I come from a background where I'd would prefer to have an "absolute and assured" value definitively set in a tangible, reliable and repeatable manner. Knowing that this is something computer code excels at, I have to assume the software engineers and the users of said software have never felt the need for this.... so I'll go back to my corner and work"around"....
 
Happy tinkering :)
Kevin L
 
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azslow3
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/17 11:53:40 (permalink)
My view on this: there are several routes between DAW and Software (!) Synth which somehow can "select a patch":
1) a "state" of the Synth. Normally it is a snapshot of ALL parameters. From DAW perspective it is a "black box", it is up to the synth to write/read that information and interpret it. DAW can ask to save or load that block. In Sonar case, that happens during project save/load OR during preset save/load. The later is manual operation, Sonar does not save nor recall these presets on its own. But that is the way to keep all settings in project independent place and restore these settings any time, f.e. when you have finished "playing" with patches inside the plug-in. Note that the preset name is kept the same, so there is no need to "remember" what it was separately. But:
a) some synths "forget" to save some parameters
b) if the synth/preset in fact has several patches, loading the preset does not mean that particular patch will be loaded
2) Automatable Parameters. While current values are normally a part of the "state", some (or all, or no...) parameters can be exposed separately, as named values. So a DAW can control them individually without changing complete state (so without doing "total recall") in case just one parameter has to be changed. In Sonar these parameters can be accessed/edited throw Track Automations. The mechanism includes viewing, editing and controlling either these parameters should be recorded/restored during playback. Writing snapshots are also supported. If "read automations" are enabled and there is some automation recorded, Sonar will (re)set these parameters on playback.
3) Bank/patch selection supported in some soft synths is working in addition to (1) and (2). In the same category are "MIDI learned" parameters, which is another way to do (2).
 
In practice:
* (1) can take long time since in most cases it involves files loading (wave forms, samples, etc.). So that is in general not possible to do during playback (in real-time). Also enabling "auto-total-recall" will be probably quite bad experience for most users. Just imagine that you have tuned some parameters, loaded patches, assigned MIDI, etc. using your keyboard with transport stopped. Then you decide to check how the result will sound with other material, you press Play and... all your work is gone...
* (2) is per parameter, so recalling it by default on playback is more expected (and so implemented that way). There are all tools to "fine tune" this process when required.
* (3) is individually set in the time line, with "most expected" approach. So Bank/Patch for the track is set in case the playback is started from the beginning (only), inside clip bank/patch changes are sent when transport pass corresponding time. For "MIDI CC" there is "look back" mechanism.
 
What I want to say, when at some moment I think "it will be nice to have X works Y way", the explanation is normally either in the technical limitations or general expectation (if changed, it will be "unnatural" for most users).

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splinetime
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Re: So Anyway... assigning a patch selection to a soft synth (which normally you do...) 2016/10/17 19:37:24 (permalink)
Good thoughts :)
 

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