tom1
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 13:43:04
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:39:46
My relatives in Germany are worried this will be the start of other countries leaving the EU and going back to their own currency. What could possibly be the problem with that? Spain, Italy, Greece and the rest could print paper money at their heart's content and set their country's budget to any amount they desire.
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bayoubill
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 13:56:21
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:39:39
I can see I'm taking a big hit on this. Reading Merrill Lynch - $2000 less
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bluzdog
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 14:10:32
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:39:34
bayoubill I can see I'm taking a big hit on this. Reading Merrill Lynch - $2000 less
I'm not gonna even look until the fall out settles. The markets are way emotionally driven. Rocky
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ampfixer
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 14:17:39
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/06/24 15:00:46
I wish England well. I have no idea what the fallout will be, but I'm pretty sure it's going to take years for it to all shake out. Personally, I hate the global economy and global manufacturing. It only serves multi-national corporate interests and has allowed the exploitation of millions. Recently we had a news story in Canada about prescription drugs that didn't meet their design specifications. Basically they were junk. Turns out that the ingredients are globally sourced and manufactured and then inspected and tested outside the country as well. The paper trail is so convoluted that you can't find out who dropped the ball. Corporations view the world as a big store. One country for raw materials, another for manufacturing, another for design and so on. Something goes wrong in China and the US and Canada feel the pain. To me it doesn't make sense to be so closely linked to countries where we have no control. I think that England leaving the EU, and affecting global markets, is a perfect example.
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sharke
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 14:35:41
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/06/24 15:03:04
As expected my Facebook feed is full of friends calling everyone who voted "leave" dumb uneducated racists. I have some pretty middle-class (UK definition of middle class, i.e. quite posh) friends calling working class people bigoted idiots who are too dumb to know what's good for them. In other conversations they're expressing solidarity with and respect for the poor and working classes. I guess it takes something like this to expose their real feelings - the whole "solidarity" thing is just a front. They just can't cope with any kind of diversity of opinion and all think in lockstep with each other.
I have different views from most of my friends and I've never felt the urge to call them names or ascribe nefarious motives to their political opinions but the instant someone disagrees with them then they're calling them a racist, a bigot, ignorant, uneducated etc. So it has been quite entertaining seeing them panic in disbelief today!
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tlw
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 15:30:05
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:39:26
jamesg1213 The pound will rally. Glad we're getting our country back, and won't be dictated to by faceless overpaid Eurocrats who we didn't elect and couldn't get rid of. Of course, it'll likely take years and they'll give us a good kicking on the way out to try and dissuade other countries from doing the same. IBTL...
With the pound at a thirty year low and £100 billion off the value of the FTSE even before trading started this morning, you're right. It will take many years for the UK's economy to recover. It would help if the assorted Brexiters actually had a plan what to do next. But they don't. Well, OK, Nigel Farage has a plan and it's more power and money for Nigel and he doesn't care how he gets it. Boris Johnson has muttered about "no need to rush anything chaps...." and disappeared from view, but the EU seem to rather disagree with him. To quote Martin Wolf in that most sober of newspapers, the Financial Times "This is probably the most disastrous single event in British history since the second world war." The saddest thing is that the majority of people who voted in the referendum couldn't tell you how a European Directive is drawn up or what almost any of them actually say or do.
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drewfx1
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 15:50:59
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/06/24 16:21:14
tlw To quote Martin Wolf in that most sober of newspapers, the Financial Times "This is probably the most disastrous single event in British history since the second world war."
Worse than The Spice Girls movie? Really?
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sharke
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 15:57:05
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☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/06/24 21:06:32
Well, the Chicken Lickens were bound to come out in full force. I guarantee, none of their worst predictions will come true. Business always finds a way because people want to make money.
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outland144k
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 16:00:44
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Moshkito Hi, This has got to be one of the most mis-guided things EVER. In a world, where everything is becoming a "world economy", someone decides to leave, because they did not create it, or invent it, and they did not like being subordinate to other countries and economies, in order to share all the goods. As is usually the case, the British invented "progressive music" and Europe is just a bunch of peons, that must be taken advantage of in commercial terms, instead of sharing the profits to ensure everyone benefits! How much you want to bet that this will hurt artists and musicians the most? You just wait!
Mosh, the UK was a founding member of the EU, if memory serves. Before anyone gets hyper-happy or deliriously despondent (if that's possible), a few facts should be noted:1) The vote was very close.2) The vote was largely split along age lines (younger- bremain, elder- brexit) and locale (urban- bremain, rural- brexit) in Great Britain.3) Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Brexit. This will almost certainly produce a second vote on the isolated question of what to do in the face of the rest of the UK's decision.4) London, strangely, could theoretically leave the EU on its own. It's status is closely akin to what we might call a city-state with a high level of autonomy.5) It is not likely that the UK will be admitted to the EU in the future if/when the popular opinion changes due to the passing of the elder generation. Essentially (and with no intimation of collusion or evil motives of anyone on my part), the elder generation has essentially passed onto the younger a permanent decision of which the younger generation wants no part. 6) The long term effect on the US dollar is not easy to discern. We may do better, at least in the short run, against the pound and (if, particularly as some expect, the EU does in fact break apart entirely), the other monetary units. The problem here is that we still have China and Russia with which to contend and the nations in the EU tend to be our allies. There are occasionally some benefits to bureaucracy. Even those in the UK who voted for Brexit often admitted that the formation of the EU was, for a time, largely advantageous to the member nations. They simply came to the point of believing that that time was past.
post edited by outland144k - 2016/06/24 16:24:03
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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jamesg1213
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 16:17:15
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/06/24 18:00:48
outland144k The vote was largely split along age lines (younger- bremain, elder- brexit) and locale (urban- bremain, rural- brexit) in Great Britain.
Not that simple. Birmingham the 2nd largest city in England, voted leave. Some of the poorest urban areas in England had the highest percentage of leave votes. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Brexit. The majority of voters in Scotland voted to remain. 4) London, strangely, could theoretically leave the EU on its own. It's status is closely akin to what we might call a city-state with a high level of autonomy. AFAIK, there's no mechanism in place that could make that happen.
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backwoods
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 16:24:37
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/06/24 17:51:14
this is going to screw with easy european travel for people like me which is a drag. I thought it was going to be close but the other way. like james said the EU may make it pretty nasty for the brits now to dissuade others from leaving. it might be too late. i'm always paranoid that countries like greece who need massive help will get peeled off by russia if it disintegrates. like usual-- it will be left to the US to worry about that.
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sharke
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 16:39:09
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:43:45
backwoods this is going to screw with easy european travel for people like me which is a drag. I thought it was going to be close but the other way. like james said the EU may make it pretty nasty for the brits now to dissuade others from leaving. it might be too late. i'm always paranoid that countries like greece who need massive help will get peeled off by russia if it disintegrates. like usual-- it will be left to the US to worry about that.
Quite honestly, if the EU try any "nasty business" in retaliation I think it's just going to fuel the exit campaigns of the remaining countries. And I think that once the initial shock wears off they will realize that it is not in their best interests to penalize or boycott the UK in any way.
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backwoods
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 16:55:09
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:42:33
I agree sharke but it might just be the first domino and I see they are already beginning to pressure UK to start proceedings stat. putin is very delighted about all of this
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tom1
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 17:07:34
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:43:14
Moskito: How much you want to bet that this will hurt artists and musicians the most? You just wait! Well, if that's the case at least you wont be hurt.
Right now no one knows how this will end. It could be nothing more than re-working trade agreements and no mass exodus from the EU.
On the other hand, the EU could dissolve completely. Each country going back to their own currency and the complications that would create. Maybe stretching here a bit, but this could also mean the end of NATO.
Very interesting times to be sure. How England reacts in the coming months will determine the outcome.
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outland144k
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 17:11:02
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jamesg1213
outland144k The vote was largely split along age lines (younger- bremain, elder- brexit) and locale (urban- bremain, rural- brexit) in Great Britain.
Not that simple. Birmingham the 2nd largest city in England, voted leave. Some of the poorest urban areas in England had the highest percentage of leave votes.
Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Brexit.
The majority of voters in Scotland voted to remain. 4) London, strangely, could theoretically leave the EU on its own. It's status is closely akin to what we might call a city-state with a high level of autonomy. AFAIK, there's no mechanism in place that could make that happen. First, let me apologize, I meant to write that Scotland and Northern Ireland voted "Bremain"; this was a simple typo and my mistake entirely. Second, that when discussing the breakdown of the voting re: locale in my first point, I said "largely", which is a correct summation, Birmingham's vote notwithstanding. It is "that simple" if one admits on any level to the validity of discussing demographics. Thirdly, London has never needed that "mechanism" (as a separate legal entity) to be in place; in one sense it already exists purely due to the nature of London's position as something analogous to (some would say synonymous with) a city-state (please see this article: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/30/i-want-the-city-state-of-london-to-join-the-other-nations-reshaping-the-union ). The situation brought about by Brexit is unique; it simply has not a strong parallel with anything else that has happened in the history of London or the UK. Also, please note, I used the word "theoretically": this would seem to be the most apt word to describe the issue. If the question arises, it will take the courts to figure it out, I'm so sure. Basically, I've not got a "horse in the race" on this issue at all. I understand the complaints of the Brexits and the concerns of the Bremains, but on many sides, it seems a "six of one, half dozen of t'other" for me. The closeness of the vote would seem to bear this out somewhat. I am very sorry that Jo Cox lost her life over this issue. That's the one surety with which I walk away from the issue.
post edited by outland144k - 2016/06/24 17:40:03
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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tlw
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 17:37:11
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:42:58
sharke Well, the Chicken Lickens were bound to come out in full force. I guarantee, none of their worst predictions will come true. Business always finds a way because people want to make money.
I'm very glad to hear you will stand guarantee for your words. Unfortunately both the currency traders and the very nearly half of us who voted to stay in the EU may not share your confidence. So, moving onwards to your promosed bright future, an occupational pension fund I was paying into in the 90s lost roughly 15% of it's value overnight. Which is a few million quid. Will you be making a donation?
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bitflipper
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Re: So Long, UK, We'll Miss Ya
2016/06/24 17:38:27
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/24 22:43:01
Although this conversation has been completely civil, I am locking this thread at the request of a user who feels it is potentially inflammatory.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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