Jonbouy
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 09:36:23
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WDI
I just thank The Lord that Microsoft doesn't own cakewalk like apple owning logic. That way we'd have updates once every four years.
IMO, it's not about the frequency of updates, but about the quality of the features in place. Sometimes it seems like cakewalk should slow down and perfect thier ideas. Often it seems like they go in a new direction just to get people to upgrade leaving some very basic things not working as good as they should.
This is the key, in X2 you can now clearly see where many of the changes that appeared in X1 were going and how they were intended to be. It takes more than one iteration on a frequent release cycle to fully implement an over arching strategy. So the trade off is you either recieve regular partly implemented upgrades which help fund further development or you wait for all the changes to be fully implemented before a release. It has to be one way or the other it seems as no company has unlimited resources they can devote to development. Having seen now some of the features in X2 I can understand X1 better, X1 was a difficult move to understand because it broke so many things, X2 is the start of the structure being built on the foundations X1 brought in. It makes far more sense already than X1 ever did throughout it's cycle. That there are far fewer issues appearing here and X2 hasn't even recieved a full service pack yet is in stark contrast to X1 even after had recieved several. I'm also seeing some faces re-appear after X1 contributed to many of them disappearing. As for the buy-out, normally there isn't a choice for the company nor customers over these things, whether any of us end up happy only time can tell. Everyone's future is uncertain just now Cakewalk and Roland are no exception, it is how it is.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/12/06 09:42:46
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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garrigus
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 09:36:35
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garrigus
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 09:37:53
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 10:01:32
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Roland is going to ask 100 of it's more highly valued employees to volunteer to be fired this Christmas season. The lucky ones are going to get a nice good bye package.
I think Roland has been out of touch with the street retail market for years.
I also think Cakewalk was drifting away from the sensible and effective decision making it was founded on.
The match up has been like a perfect storm... Roland was worth less than it has ever been in it's entire history as a publicly traded company just last October. It's doing a little better now but it's still in the all time low range.
Roland is not in a position to give Cakewalk the support it needs at this moment and Cakewalk isn't a very large part of Roland's revenue. Roland has a lot of stuff going on that it has to focus on or make go away and it is in the process of doing it.
After it gets rid of the 100 employees as it has announced it will, the opportunity to revive the company will be left to less expensive and perhaps less experienced employees.
I hope someone figures out that there is an ever growing number of musicians on the planet and that they can connect Roland with the musicians' actual interests... I'd like the company that makes my favorite DAW to stick around for a long time.
I hope Cakewalk gets back to the point where it sells gobs of good stuff at full price instead of pretending that discounting, freebies, and looking the other way when it doesn't work out is a long term strategy for success.
Good luck.
best regards,
mike
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John T
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 10:25:14
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Yes, street retail, clearly where the 21st century software business is at.
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Bub 
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 11:28:52
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John T
Yes, street retail, clearly where the 21st century software business is at.
I'm not following you, what do you mean by that?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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cryophonik
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 11:52:23
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I think the whole deal was an evil conspiracy by Roland to steal Brandon. Now that they've got him, they're going to cut off development of all Cakewalk products. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 11:54:36
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Bub
John T
Yes, street retail, clearly where the 21st century software business is at.
I'm not following you, what do you mean by that?
Not to be taken literally Bub - at least I don't think so
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Brando
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 11:55:11
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cryophonik
I think the whole deal was an evil conspiracy by Roland to steal Brandon. Now that they've got him, they're going to cut off development of all Cakewalk products.
Nice hat - if you put a Roland logo on 'em you could sell 'em in the Cake store.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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cryophonik
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 12:02:03
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Brando
cryophonik
I think the whole deal was an evil conspiracy by Roland to steal Brandon. Now that they've got him, they're going to cut off development of all Cakewalk products.
Nice hat - if you put a Roland logo on 'em you could sell 'em in the Cake store.
That's not me BTW - I'm much nerdier purtier.
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jb101
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 13:00:09
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garrigus
jb101
Roland JX-3P for me. Still used it until quite recently. May break it out again if I can rearrange my studio a bit. Still using my XP-60.
Did that one come out before the JX-8P? I can't remember...
Scott
Yes, I think so. It was six voice polyphonic and Roland's first synth with MIDI. Two DCOs per voice. Had the same VCA, and VCFs as the Juno and Jupiter range, I believe.
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jm24
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 13:24:07
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Roland's support prolly was one of the reasons for the lower prices of the X series. Dropping prices was stupid.
There are better ways to expand market share. Creating a secondary market is one of the fastest and most profitable.
Full access to the API would create support from 3rd parties. Way useful for increasing market and free promotion.
And so on.
Reducing prices: more customers,more transactions more support requests, more expenses, less profit,,,, less time to spend on updating the website, maintaining the forums (least expensive support),.....
I do not like the X series. Too many menus, too many clicks, too much wasted space, too little customization.
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John T
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 13:41:44
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What a silly post. You have absolutely no idea whether Cakewalk profits are up or down.
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royarn
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 14:01:28
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Cubase /Yamaha ---- Cakewalk / Roland who does Casio get,,,,,
I'm just happy that Sonar is getting easier to use Whoever owns it.
Guess Greg sold it to them. By Greg.
O.K. so I'm a bit late with that one.
Best Roy
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jm24
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 14:04:15
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Its not about what profits are but what they could be.
Expenses are determined by transactions. Lower prices requires more transactions to obtain the same revenue.
I would have preferred a better product for more money. It took 4 updates over 2 years to get X1 reasonable.
CW has followed MS with its stupid focus on new users, requiring more clicks for most everything, more remembering of short key commands, and reduced ease of use.
Windows 8 continues this path of dumbness. More clicks, more obscure locations of settings, and functions, more wasted space,...
Both w8 and sonar X requires more user attention to the FUI.
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Linear Phase
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 14:32:46
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jm24
Expenses are determined by transactions. Lower prices requires more transactions to obtain the same revenue.
No.. I'm afraid that is not how business works at all. Expenses are determined by, "production and material costs, marketing costs, payroll and shipping costs, taxes, and other costs. Transaction costs money, but the lower prices could be more profitable, even if the actual dollar amount of revenue is lower. Why? Lower prices could reflect a lower material cost, and a higher profit margin. Many of you, probably do not know where to find this? http://www.roland.com/ir/result.html
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 14:59:03
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Linear Phase
Many of you, probably do not know where to find this? http://www.roland.com/ir/result.html
From the Consolidated Financial Results for the Six Months Ended September 30, 2012 [JGAAP] November 7, 2012 Company Name: Roland Corporation as linked to on that page: [Professional video, professional audio and computer music equipment] Sales of professional audio equipment were sluggish, primarily in the United States and Europe, but with regard to professional video equipment, robust sales of all-in-one AV mixers for live online video streaming were recorded in Japan and North America. In computer music equipment, however, sales of music production software and peripheral equipment were weak. As a result, net sales for this segment fell by 14.6% year on year to ¥2,249 million. Interesting read.
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Linear Phase
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 18:06:48
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well.. Its not lack of demand, imho... I've got two Roland products on my Sweetwater wish list.. And I run my own business, and if it was easier for me to make $, than it would be easier for me to spend $
that's all..
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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SuperG
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 19:41:06
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Unless you're a gigging musician, most folks consider the retail music products business to be in the leisure category. Meaning...leisure sales are the first to go in any downturn.
It isn't just the music business, it's the same in video products, camera's, you name it. Companies are forced to compete (perish the thought..) , either on price, features, or both. Sometimes, it makes sense to sell more at a lower price-point. You can always lard-up a product with esoteric features and shovelware for those who feel the need to spend more money.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 22:18:48
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mike_mccue
Roland is going to ask 100 of it's more highly valued employees to volunteer to be fired this Christmas season. The lucky ones are going to get a nice good bye package.
I think Roland has been out of touch with the street retail market for years.
I also think Cakewalk was drifting away from the sensible and effective decision making it was founded on.
The match up has been like a perfect storm... Roland was worth less than it has ever been in it's entire history as a publicly traded company just last October. It's doing a little better now but it's still in the all time low range.
Roland is not in a position to give Cakewalk the support it needs at this moment and Cakewalk isn't a very large part of Roland's revenue. Roland has a lot of stuff going on that it has to focus on or make go away and it is in the process of doing it.
After it gets rid of the 100 employees as it has announced it will, the opportunity to revive the company will be left to less expensive and perhaps less experienced employees.
I hope someone figures out that there is an ever growing number of musicians on the planet and that they can connect Roland with the musicians' actual interests... I'd like the company that makes my favorite DAW to stick around for a long time.
I hope Cakewalk gets back to the point where it sells gobs of good stuff at full price instead of pretending that discounting, freebies, and looking the other way when it doesn't work out is a long term strategy for success.
Good luck.
best regards,
mike
Your post made me worry a bit so I had to Google a few things. Actually Roland's profits are up. Here is their dividend release statement. http://www.roland.com/ir/pdf/2013/20121107_1.pdf There stock is doing much better now too. Check out what Bloomberg says http://investing.business...p?ticker=7944:JP Looking through quarterly statements It seems Roland began to make more money and their stock started to rise in October. I wonder what happened in October of this year to make Roland's stock rise from 509 yen to to over 600 yen hmmmmmmm Roland has still issued a 2.81 percent dividend an that's not to bad in today's economy. They are not in serious trouble and they are still a strong stable company. Roland Acquired cakewalk to strengthen their company and while I don't know all of the inner workings I am willing to bet cakewalk benefits from their R&D. It is true that Roland's stock is not doing as well as it did in April. I was searching for more details about Roland laying off 100 employees and nothing came up in Google. Could you give a few more details. You mentioned that you thought that Roland has been out of touch with the street retail market for years. Could you elaborate that point of view. I really have no opinion on this, but now I am just curious. Thanks Mike
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Rain
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 22:41:13
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munmun
I remember the worries at the time. I think that I am. X2 has been a quantum leap. Hard to know whether Roland drove that. Still at least Roland is a company dedicated to music making. Unlike Logic users who are at the mercy of a consumer electronics company that puts out an update every 3-4 years.
That's one way of seeing things. And it's far from objective. The way I see it - Apple released an incredible piece of software 3 years ago which is still ahead or as good as the competition in many areas (swipe comping, varispeed, etc.) The skylight GUI around which so much noise was made when X1 came out is actually an adaptation of a design implemented by Apple in Logic way back in 2007. Since Logic 9 came out 3 years ago, Apple has been constantly releasing free updates and fixes - the most recent just last month. As a user, there is something good to be said about a developer that doesn't feel the need to sell a new upgrade every year and then issue the mandatory 2 or 3 fixes, leaving plenty of issues behind before they systematically force you to buy a new version in hope that the bugs will have been fixed. Another way to see it is that Apple doesn't need to sell you rushed upgrades every year. They know darn well that once you buy into their system, you'll probably end up w/ an iPhone, and iPad, a MacBook, buying music from iTunes and relying on them for all your computing needs. It's simply more convenient. Roland is a company dedicated to making money, like all of them. The yearly releases, the modular approach (Pro Channel stuff), etc... If they were in it for the music, Rapture and Dimension would probably have been updated in the last 2 years. As of today, neither of them even support either of the two last OS X revisions. Apple isn't treating us Logic users as badly as you seem to assume.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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deswind
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 23:09:57
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Rain
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 23:13:51
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Also worth mentioning - there are actually some nice advantages in having the manufacturer of your DAW software also provide you the OS and the hardware to run it.
On the other hand, whatever piece of software you decide to use, you still depend on Microsoft. They too could screw things up pretty badly. And even though they don't manufacture your DAW and the hardware, it's pretty clear these days that MS is only following in Apple's steps once again.
90% of the publicities I have to put up w/ when I watch South Park (the only thing I watch) are about:
1 - the heavily Mac OS X inspired Windows 8
2 - the wickedly innovative Windows App Store
3 - Windows phones and Windows Tablets
So whatever Apple does, you can be sure that it will have consequences on your platform of choice.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Bub
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/06 23:58:08
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cryophonik
I think the whole deal was an evil conspiracy by Roland to steal Brandon. Now that they've got him, they're going to cut off development of all Cakewalk products.
See .. this is the problem with stupid people! That hat will never work! He's got the shiny side of the foil up! It has to be down so the brain waves reflect back in to his skull! People. Pfft.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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musichoo
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 00:55:24
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Don't forget that Roland's groove synth is in Sonar since when? Some other evidence of the "marriage" of Roland and cakewalk is their A300, 500 and 800 Pro controller keyboard. I have the 500. Easy to use with ACT function. Haven't have any serious complain from me. Probably designed to work with Sonar in mind.
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Jonbouy
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 01:06:21
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musichoo
Don't forget that Roland's groove synth is in Sonar since when? Some other evidence of the "marriage" of Roland and cakewalk is their A300, 500 and 800 Pro controller keyboard. I have the 500. Easy to use with ACT function. Haven't have any serious complain from me. Probably designed to work with Sonar in mind.
Like the VS700? Ah, yes!
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 07:36:17
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WDI
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 10:03:30
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I do think its cool that Cake and Roland can colaborate on hardware/software like vs700 and v mixing system or whatever. I would think that benefits all parties involved including us measly little old end users.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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Lemonboy
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 10:14:20
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Rain
munmun
I remember the worries at the time. I think that I am. X2 has been a quantum leap. Hard to know whether Roland drove that. Still at least Roland is a company dedicated to music making. Unlike Logic users who are at the mercy of a consumer electronics company that puts out an update every 3-4 years.
That's one way of seeing things. And it's far from objective.
The way I see it - Apple released an incredible piece of software 3 years ago which is still ahead or as good as the competition in many areas (swipe comping, varispeed, etc.) The skylight GUI around which so much noise was made when X1 came out is actually an adaptation of a design implemented by Apple in Logic way back in 2007.
Since Logic 9 came out 3 years ago, Apple has been constantly releasing free updates and fixes - the most recent just last month.
As a user, there is something good to be said about a developer that doesn't feel the need to sell a new upgrade every year and then issue the mandatory 2 or 3 fixes, leaving plenty of issues behind before they systematically force you to buy a new version in hope that the bugs will have been fixed.
Another way to see it is that Apple doesn't need to sell you rushed upgrades every year. They know darn well that once you buy into their system, you'll probably end up w/ an iPhone, and iPad, a MacBook, buying music from iTunes and relying on them for all your computing needs. It's simply more convenient.
Roland is a company dedicated to making money, like all of them. The yearly releases, the modular approach (Pro Channel stuff), etc...
If they were in it for the music, Rapture and Dimension would probably have been updated in the last 2 years. As of today, neither of them even support either of the two last OS X revisions.
Apple isn't treating us Logic users as badly as you seem to assume.
I agree with what Rain has said. I'm currently using Logic more than Sonar, and the fact that is hasn't had a major upgrade for a while is certainly not a problem as far as I am concerned. I do however eagerly read up on the gossip whenever Sonar is due for an update and lurk here far more than on the Logic forums. I don't think Logic is better than Sonar (or vice-versa), but for me (as I am Mac based) it is currently more convenient to use - that's all Andy
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:So are we glad that Roland bought Cakewalk?
2012/12/07 10:31:22
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mike_mccue
Hi Marcus,
http://www.roland.com/
best regards,
mike
LOL mike! I guess I kind of got what I asked for and thanks for that. I was just hoping for some examples, but let me give you one. I have a Jam Man looper from Digitech. I had the Roland looper first but I sold it. The features on the Roland looper did not match up as well as the Jam Man. The internal memory on the Roland product was not big enough. the amount of loops you could save was only about 15. On the Jam Man you could save 99 loops. The Jam man had an external memory card the Roland looper did not. Even though they had 15 places to save loops I could only save about 3 songs because of the size of the internal memory and no way to have an external memory. Based on Rolands looper series and what I do with them I would say that their are a bunch of ways to improve this product line and there are far better ones on the market. However I have other Roland gear that I absolutely love like the GR 20 and the GR 33. No one does that as well as Roland. The VS-100 is great and I have used that for remote recording as well. This is why I really have no opinion on this. I feel that Some of their gear is missing the mark while other products are really good. I was just hoping you could provide some perspective through your experience on some of the other products you have used. Your response was pretty funny though
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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