So if you have a system that X1D 64-bit crashes all the time on

Is it worth trying to work around, or is it simply that the hardware, for whatever reason, is not compatible and you are doomed to failure? I'm trying to decide if I should pursue a refund from Cakewalk or attempt to work on my system/Sonar. While I suppose some instability is the kind of thing one can expect, this is above and beyond anything I thought possible. For example if I double click on a MIDI track in the console view, Sonar crashes and crashes so badly that I can't kill it, it just sits there, hung, killing the process does not work. That's not the only way I've gotten it to crash either, and I've had it installed for all of about 2 hours. I can't deal with things that bad, I can't reboot my system every few minutes. So: Is this the kind of thing that is fixable, and if so where should I start looking? If not, I think I'm going to see if they'll give me a refund, and if they won't, perhaps I'll make it a bit more compulsory. For reference, this is a very clean Windows 7 64-bit install, I redid it this weekend. It is otherwise completely stable. Drivers for all hardware (an M-Audio Delta Audiofile 2496 being the relevant soundcard) are all current. Buying a new system is not an option, this one contains plenty of expensive hardware (i7-2600k, 16GB RAM, GTX 680, 2 SSDs, etc) so I cannot just trash it. However if there's a part that is likely to be the problem, that could be replaced potentially. I'll give a more comprehensive hardware list, if that is useful.

Its unlikely you will get a satisfactory answer here. Those of us that have no issues with X1 can't relate and those that do can't give any better advice unless they have had your problems and did replace their hardware and now don't have those problems.

One thing that may cause constant crashing is bad memory. Or memory that is not 100 % identical. That is mismatched memory.  If the timing is just a tiny bit off it can bring down an otherwise great system.

Another is a flaky driver.  It may not be directly related to the use of X1 either.

Your best bet is contact tech support at CW.

I hope you do get this fixed.

That doesn't mean no one here can't be of help though and I hope someone does come along and sorts out you problems.

One last thing that might help is try a clean install of X1. That remove it now and reinstall it from scratch.

Double clicking on a MIDI track will bring up one of the MIDI editors depending on which one is set up to do so. I believe the default is the PRV. But it can be the Event list or the Staff view.

chuckebaby

John


Double clicking on a MIDI track will bring up one of the MIDI editors depending on which one is set up to do so. I believe the default is the PRV. But it can be the Event list or the Staff view.

in the console view?
does nothing in console view.
 
 
 
@sycraft,
fill in your signiture when you get a chance.
about replacing anything???
dude you dont need to replace nothing except work on that soundcard.
probably get it working now if you set up your hard ware corretly but like i said,its not the greatest.

MIDI tracks are in the track view. And no I would not double click in the CV on a MIDI channel strip.

Without wanting to state the obvious... But, here it is: You did install the x1d patch?

Your system looks like it is well suited for Sonar, and the problem certainly fixable.  It sounds possibly like a driver problem.. M Audio has caused me grief in the past, but to find out for sure I think you might try swapping out or unplugging audio interface/sound devices.  DAWs are very complex systems, and just one silly little compatibility problem can cause, well... what you're experiencing. 

Since double clicking a midi track initiates a rapid bunch of display changes as it opens piano roll view, perhaps there is a hang up with your video card/driver.. 

So some further answers to questions asked and raised here:
 
--I'm pretty confident of the system's stability. It is not a new build, I've had most of the hardware for 9+ months, other than the GTX 680 which is of course quite new. It has been tested fairly extensively. There was in fact a single bit memory error (one bit that stuck only on certain tests, and only in quad channel mode) that it had when I built it, but a replacement kit of RAM fixed that. I didn't build this for the purpose of Sonar, it is just my desktop PC.
 
--I am running Sonar Studio X1d. My process for patching it was to install Sonar, install the X1c patch, then install the X1d patch. The X1c patch indicates it is cumulative, and the X1d patch indicates it is not, hence that order of patching.
 
--The problem is not likely related to any plugins (they are all 64-bit anyhow, part of getting Sonar was to completely switch off of 32-bit). I can get it to crash by loading a standard MIDI file (.mid, just MIDI data, nothing else), opening the console (faders, like an actual mixer) view, and double clicking on one of them. That's not the only way I've had it crash, it did crash on loading a 64-bit plugin, but I'll give it a pass on all plugin problems for now as that is an uncontrolled variable.
 
--It is probably not the video driver. The driver is WHQL certified and for those not familiar, the GTX 680 is the current top of the line from nVidia. It is a heavy hitting 3D card, and nVidia is pretty good with drivers. The thing that has me worried, considering packing it in after just a couple hours is the ease with which it crashes, but also the "zombieing the process" this.
 
 
At work I use Sony Vegas for video editing and it blows up sometimes but that it ok since I just restart it, I'm down for only a tiny bit. However if I have to bounce my computer to fix it, that'll quickly get old. I'll entertain the idea of a new audio card if people think that is a good idea. All I require is that it has S/PDIF or HDMI out, works well, and doesn't cost too much. Inputs are unimportant. I'm not willing to spend a ton in part because what I'm asking is fairly simply (just two track digital out is all I really need) and in part because this is not a studio project, this is just stuff at home. I might drop $500 on one, but only if there's a good reason.

Sycraft your machine has nice specs. It should run X1 beautifully without a crash. I just loaded a MIDI project and opened the CV and doubled clicked on a channel strip in it to see if it would crash X1, it didn't.  I moved a fader and double clicked on it to reset it, no crash.  I tried doubled clicking on an empty part of the strip again no crash. In other words it shouldn't crash. BTW this MIDI file has True Pianos and it runs just fine.

My machine is not nearly as good as yours and it has a lot more stuff attached to it. CSs, keyboards, USB audio with 16 inputs plus MIDI ports 6 in all. I am on Vista U  64 bit with 8 GB of ram and a Q6600 CPU. 6 HDs one is a USB 2 HD. Plus dual monitors. If mine has absolutely no problem running X1 than yours should run it too.

Of all the gear you list my one concern is the M-Audio Delta card.  It should be just fine yet it could be it that is causing the crashing.  I would see about moving it to another slot if one is open for that.

You have done a great job in listing the problem and your gear. None the less it has to be a hardware issue that is causing your crashing. I suspect that it may be the Delta card.

If you have an on board sound chip try using it in MME mode just for testing. Deselect your Delta card in X1.

One last thing the power supply is vital to the health of your machine. Be sure it has the power your machines needs.

Could be a bad memory chip. Run the Windows 7 memory test or download memtest from www.memtest.com. 

Its not Sonar. It rarely crashes on my measly quad core with only 8 GB of memory and an ancient Delta44 soundcard. 

Forget MME. Use ASIO mode. 

chuckebaby

Sycraft


I can try MME (though it says 32-bit only) or WASAPI with my other, consumer, soundcard (the Auzentech) and see if that makes a difference, I'll try tonight when I get home.

In terms of power I updated my sig, I have a Corsair HX1000. It is a PSU rated to 1000 watts, though actually built with 1200 watt components since Corsair underspecs their high end units for performance reasons. As such it is rated to provide 1000 watts, at 50 degrees C intake, 24/7 without error. The system only draws maybe 280 watts under full load (and then only when the GPU is spun up) so it is completely overkill.

Computer support is actually my profession, so I'm not bad at assembling and testing systems, which is why I'm annoyed with Sonar and convinced the problem lies in it. I have vetted this system for stability and errors, as I do with my personal systems, and it is built on solid hardware. I could have missed something, of course, but I doubt it given that Sonar is what is having troubles.

I should say Sonar runs fine when it does run, I loaded up a number of Play instruments and there were no performance issues or anything. It is just very flaky, and when it does go down, it doesn't want to just terminate and relaunch.

have you contacted cakewalk yet?
id call them or email,send in your specs and i think they could probably give you a more direct answer or even verify what i said in my first post and my second post....you audio card. 
if youve already regestered your copy it will be easy.
best thing to do imo.
 
save the crash log.the'll probably want to see it.

I gave the M-audio "Delta Series" a boot-out about 2 years ago.
My Delta 1010LT ran perfect on my older celeron.
But just would not work on either of my newer Q6600 quad core systems.
Even a brand new MSI mother PCB, would not work on my MOTU MKIII,
without clicks, pops. So I gave it to my son.
 My generic i5 Acer laptop and my other Q6600 Asus system are running quite nicely with
the MOTU MKIII or M-audio fast track USB 2.0.
 My point is: sometimes the hardware just won`t cut it.
Those here who have clean systems running have found that right combination that just works.
Getting updated drivers sometimes works, other times the previous drivers work
better. If possible, try other sound cards.
I still use my M-Audio 410 firewire, M-audio fast track, and MotuMK III. All 3 are running smoothly,
but my old Delta 1010LT, is in the trash.
( stills worked on my old celeron ).

Of all the DAWs I use, I like sonar the best.

good luck,
be paitent,
explore your possibilities,
read these forums frequently,

I find X1D an excellent choice,
even if I still use version 8.5.3 for older projects.

Don Belisle
Win 7 64 bit, 32 bit, XP pro 32 bit
Sonar 8.5.3, Sonar X1D, all updates, prochannel goodies.
i5 Acer laptop, Q6600 desktop, 4 gig memory, 9500 Nvidia graphics,
MOTU MKIII, Fast track ultra USB 2.0, boss BR 80 micro recorder,
Ozone, alloy, melodyne, lots of external midi gear.

Sycraft


I can try MME (though it says 32-bit only) or WASAPI with my other, consumer, soundcard (the Auzentech) and see if that makes a difference, I'll try tonight when I get home.

In terms of power I updated my sig, I have a Corsair HX1000. It is a PSU rated to 1000 watts, though actually built with 1200 watt components since Corsair underspecs their high end units for performance reasons. As such it is rated to provide 1000 watts, at 50 degrees C intake, 24/7 without error. The system only draws maybe 280 watts under full load (and then only when the GPU is spun up) so it is completely overkill.

Computer support is actually my profession, so I'm not bad at assembling and testing systems, which is why I'm annoyed with Sonar and convinced the problem lies in it. I have vetted this system for stability and errors, as I do with my personal systems, and it is built on solid hardware. I could have missed something, of course, but I doubt it given that Sonar is what is having troubles.

I should say Sonar runs fine when it does run, I loaded up a number of Play instruments and there were no performance issues or anything. It is just very flaky, and when it does go down, it doesn't want to just terminate and relaunch.

I got the impression that you do know a thing or two about PCs. This makes it a lot easier to work with you.

I must say that if it were X1 being the problem all of us would have the same problem.  Clearly that is not the case therefore it has to be a problem with your setup.

Others here have voiced concern for the Delta card as well so that is where I would spend my time in solving the problem.  However just because we wonder about it doesn't mean it is in fact the problem.

Windows has a performance and tools applet in the control panel that also lists the logs for crashes . It should be in that applet under advanced tools. This is in answer to where you can find crash logs.

Let us know what you find. Take care.

We may just be able to get this solved.
 

From your description of the issue, it sounds as if it's either hardware or driver related. Since you've already tested memory, if I were you, I'd focus on drivers - the audio interface driver as others have indicated is a very good place to start, particularly given your description of the symptoms (sounds like an audio driver not releasing the device, etc). 

If you switch audio drivers to no avail (or are absolutely confident the latest version you're using is rock solid with Sonar), then I'd move to other drivers - given you said this is your home machine, check the video card driver, disable any virus scanning & Wireless LAN driver, etc.  It's interesting how these things can interfere with any DAW stability (not just Sonar).  Given you're PC savvy, you'll clearly see many stability threads on this forum (and others) are the result of drivers, particularly video drivers.

Computer support is actually my profession, so I'm not bad at assembling and testing systems

Have you checked for an IRQ conflict between your Delta interface and your video card?

I already mentioned this btw...

Midi: Make sure only the Midi Ports you are using for Keyboard/Controllers are enabled especially the generic Window midi driver that will tie up your audio driver for a start. Start with your input keyboard and enable other devices if you have them one at a time. btw the crash when you have no choice but to reboot you might find that power cycling your midi device(s) may release the Sonar task running in the background.

See post #14 there may be more there you missed.



It means start minimal and introduce things until you find the actual source of the problem.  I went to the trouble of writing it especially for you...