Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break

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Katie_Katie
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2010/12/20 09:46:45 (permalink)

Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break

Hello:
I need some troubleshooting paths to track down an intermittent problem in X1 Producer.  Although I am a long-time Cake user, the solution to this one has me sighing quite a bit.
 
Problem:
Intermittently, the Soft Synths Session Drummer, and TTS will just quit.  Meaning, they stop accepting any track midi, external midi input AND, this is the odd part, stop previewing sounds. i.e. pressing on the preview sound button in their individual control panels.  For instance. Normally when I have the TTS window open I can preview, lets say, a bass or a piano and a short little riff will play for that instrument when I press the preview[note symbol] button at the bottom of the panel.  When this problem occurs the preview button[note symbol] lights up but no sound and no bar activity on the panel.  Same with the Session Drummer when I press play for a loaded kit and midi loop.   In essence, both of these Soft Synths fail in similar fashion at the same time. 
 
Conditions:
This problems normally occurs after I return to the track screen to listen to some changes I have made to other tracks.  Such as audio transient detection, tempo changes, loop editing, controller sweeps, automated volume changes, audio clip sliding, etc.  Nothing real fancy or intensive, just normal Cake editing.
 
Things I have tried and observed:
Tired:
  1. Deleted and reloaded the synths from the rack.  No change.
  2. Saving and reloading the project.  Sometimes helps - most times not.
  3. Exiting Sonar and then restarting Sonar.   Most times helps - sometimes not
  4. Restarting Computer.  Always fixes
  5. Looked in the sys event logs (Win 7) for any errors that may have occurs at that time- nada
  
Observed:
  1. When this problem occurs the midi data (when I play a note on my piano or other keyboard) is still being sent to Sonar and returned to the piano or other keyboard.  Also, the little midi icon flashes both send and relieve lights.
  2. Audio tracks play just fine when this problem occurs - along with their respective plugin effects.
  3. CPU usage does not change - for these types of projects (20 tracks or so of mixed midi and audio), CPU usage is below 25%.  Audio dropout is never triggered.
  4. I run 5.8ms delay on ASIO drivers (newest version from M-Audio). 
 
Thanks in advance for reading my lengthy post.  I look forward to any troubleshoot paths you suggest I take.  Don't assume that because I have been a longtime Cake user that I "Know Stuff".  I'll accept any advice other than "Is the computer plugged in?" 
 
Katherine
 
post edited by Katie_Katie - 2010/12/20 09:48:44

Katherine  

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    pwal
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2010/12/20 10:10:30 (permalink)
    thoughts: just these 2 synths? did you try (1 above) deleting the muted synth and inserting a different one? try inserting them not from the rack? are they midi/audio combos or "simple instrument" tracks? etc
    good luck!

    list of stuff
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    benstat
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2010/12/20 10:11:08 (permalink)
    Why not try and create a new, empty project and only add Session Drummer and whatever else you think you need to cause the same problem. Does it still occur? Can you repeat the problem in a fresh project, or does it just happen in your existing project? Doing this will help determine if it's an issue just with your project, or a general issue with Sonar/Session Drummer/TTS.

    Also, is there a specific, repeatable sequence of things you can do that will always make this happen? For example, can you always make this happen by doing certain things in a certain order? To double check, close and reopen your project in Sonar and try the same things again. If the problem always occurs (or it occurs a significant number of times), then you have everything you need to submit a bug report.

    If so, submit your bug report via the Problem Tracker (http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter/Default.aspx). Be sure to detail the exact, repeatable sequence of events that cause it to happen, and I would also attach a copy of your project (or at least a stripped down copy, that you are sure still contains the same problem).
     
    Of course, the first patch is being released some time this week, so you might want to install that and try again first.
    post edited by benstat - 2010/12/20 10:13:02

    My DAW: Intel i5, Cakewalk UA-1G, Win7 64 bit, SONAR X1a Producer 64 bit
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    Chregg
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2010/12/20 10:14:54 (permalink)
    katherine i know this might be along shot but does all the audio samples have the same sample rate??
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2010/12/20 12:29:10 (permalink)
    Just to clarify, this problem is new to X1 for you, and never occurred in earlier releases? 
      
    Assuming MIDI and audio volume settings are not getting zeroed somehow, having wave playback continue to work while TTS-1 audition fail is pretty weird. TTS-1 audition not working rules out MIDI problems (other than MIDI volume being zeroed). Given that fact, and that restarting SONAR sometimes helps, I would have to conclude it's an internal logic problem or maybe a problem with SONAR opening the ports for output.
     
    The latter happens to me on rewinding from the record state due to bad x64 drivers for my interface, but then I lose wave playback as well. So unless your soft synths are taking a different physical path to your monitors than wave playback, that's hard to square.
     
    If it never happened with the same projects in earlier releases, I would be inclined to suspect that's an X1 bug.
     
    I ran into a weird problem with TTS-1 a while ago (x64-specific, I think) where enabling the built-in EQ section on channel made it go silent, but your issue sounds more widespread than that.
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    Katie_Katie
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2010/12/20 13:07:43 (permalink)
    pwal:
    Thanks for the response.  I actually did go through that procedure (failed to mention that in my first post...my bad) and symptom remains.
     
    Chregg:
    Also thanks for the response.  Yes, the audio files are all the same and Cake is set to those same settings.  And longshots sometime pay 12:1.
     
    brundlefly:
    Your reply is interesting and raised another question.  Does TTS use a mid file to audition those patches or are they wave files?   If they are midi, are they routed internally?  Same with the Session Drummer, when you load a mid file (in this case we know it is not a fixed wav file), is the mid file routed internally?  Is there an internal Sonar pipe that is somehow [insert techie term here]?  Ah, I may be getting to inquisitive here.  Thanks for the reply.
      
     
    benstat:
    Your reply encouraged me to do some additional work and investigation.    I got an interesting, but non-conclusive, outcome.
     
    Basically, here is how I can *sometimes* repeat the symptoms. 
    I have a audio capture of a gent playing a song on a guitar.  A country ballad with a tempo average of about 112.  He recorded without a metro (lots of people give me varied-tempo captures) so the tempo varies a bit.  There is not enough bump in the track to allow Sonar to define any transients that match the tempo. 
     
    To work around this I personally like to create a audio track with a drumstick, pad and mic then use that track as a transient generator to determine the tempo map (of course after removing silence and cleaning up with the clip map....before you ask).   I  then pool quantize the audio to a average tempo.  With that as a base, I can then add midi tracks to the project synched to the original audio and set a project tempo.  Yes, I know I could do the same with a midi channel as a source, but I like the drumstick capture - it always works for me and I like beating on the drum pad :). 
     
     Of course, if the audio tempo varies too much, I will just use the tempo map and let Cake follow because if I quantize the audio it may change the texture of the original song. 
     
    Anyway, what I discovered by simplification [ your suggestion] using just three tracks - 2 audio and 1 midi, is that this symptom will occur if I do the above....but.....*not" every time...just as I stated in my original post.  I'll continue to try and simplify and read the advice given
     
    Thanks for the suggestion
    Katherine
     
    EDIT  1:42pm EST
    I just downloaded and intalled the X1a patch.   Maybe [fingers crossed] this will correct the problem.
    post edited by Katie_Katie - 2010/12/20 13:42:41

    Katherine  

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    mlovullo
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2011/06/03 01:13:22 (permalink)
    i am having the same problem. I am using Sonar X1 Producer. Win 7, 32 Bit. ASIO.
    I can play and all the sounds work fine, all of a sudden everything drops out and there's no sound.
    if I go to any of my program icons in the lower right of my screen and close one, the synths start working again...or like you, if I restart sonar it works for a while again.
     
    All my other tracks work - midi & audio. Also, if I switch from a soft syth to a 'regular' outboard midi module the midi works fine without re-starting anything.
     
    I'm anxious to see if anyone else is having this problem
     
    Thanks!
     
    #7
    yorolpal
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    Re:Soft Synths intermittently go on a coffee break 2011/06/03 11:30:07 (permalink)
    This happens to me as well.  I just close the project and reopen it...that "usually" does it.  It's not uncommon or unusual at all for me for X1 to just stop outputting midi.  Happens frequently in Kontakt 4.

    https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
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    Where you come from is gone...where you thought you were goin to weren't never there...and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.
     
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