Helpful ReplySoft synth won't sound

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mbunkerusa
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2015/05/03 13:35:14 (permalink)

Soft synth won't sound

Hello,
I have been buying the Cakewalk DAW since the very beginning.  I currently have Sonar platinum (Dorchester).  I have never really used the DAW for playing music because I never understood it.  But I am currently trying to set up a project to play a MIDI song file with 8 tracks to play on the included soft synths.  I can't tell you how many hours I have tried to get this thing to work.  Here is my problem:
 
My driver is set to WDM/KS.  I have also tried WASABI, ASIO doesn't work on my laptop, but these shouldn't matter for my problem.  I imported a multiple-track MIDI song file.  It plays fine, in that the meters on the MIDI tracks bounce as expected.
 
I created a Dimension Pro soft synth track and assigned a patch/program to it.  On the MIDI tracks I assigned the inputs to None, since there would be no additional sources.  On one tracks output I selected Dimension Pro 1, the soft synth track.  Seems kinda intuitive.
 
I set the Dimension synth track input to None (or most any of the other choices from "Dimension Pro 1", or "All Inputs" and various MIDI channels in these groups), and the output goes to Master.  But the Dimension track doesn't play.  It's output meters don't bounce no matter how I set the inputs and outputs.
 
This has been my problem forever with Sonar.  After more than ten years with this product I want to get over this one hurdle.  I have tried so many combinations of inputs and outputs, to no avail.  What can be my problem?

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
Sonar Platinum, Roland Integra-7, Overture 5. HP laptop 4 cores, Windows 10-64 bit, 8 GB memory, lotsa disk.
#1
scook
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 13:50:07 (permalink)
When MIDI files imported into SONAR do not play through Cakewalk sfz engine synths like DPro it is usually because there is extra data which causes the sfz engine to shut down. There are a couple of ways to deal with the problem. Clean up the MIDI file in the event view removing everything but the note and CC data. Another way is in DPro plug-in properties, enable "Do not intercept NRPNs." The plug-in properties dialog is on the VST2 dropdown in the DPro UI header and in the Cakewalk Plug-in Manager. It is also possible to setup the MIDI Event Filter MFX to prevent the data from going to the synth.
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mbunkerusa
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 15:39:43 (permalink)
Thanks for the suggestions.  This is a Note data only file with no CC's or volume events, created by the Overture score editor, formerly a Cakewalk product.  I set "Do not intercept NRPNs." in DPro but no help.  Still no triggering of the synth.
 
There is one additional Synth, Serum from Xfer Records (top rated in Keyboard Dec 2014).  It doesn't trigger either.
-Mike

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
Sonar Platinum, Roland Integra-7, Overture 5. HP laptop 4 cores, Windows 10-64 bit, 8 GB memory, lotsa disk.
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scook
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 15:49:50 (permalink)
Do the files play using TTS-1?
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 16:20:23 (permalink)
mbunkerusa
Hello,
I have been buying the Cakewalk DAW since the very beginning.  I currently have Sonar platinum (Dorchester).  I have never really used the DAW for playing music because I never understood it.  But I am currently trying to set up a project to play a MIDI song file with 8 tracks to play on the included soft synths.  I can't tell you how many hours I have tried to get this thing to work.  Here is my problem:
 
My driver is set to WDM/KS.  I have also tried WASABI, ASIO doesn't work on my laptop, but these shouldn't matter for my problem.  I imported a multiple-track MIDI song file.  It plays fine, in that the meters on the MIDI tracks bounce as expected.
 
I created a Dimension Pro soft synth track and assigned a patch/program to it.  On the MIDI tracks I assigned the inputs to None, since there would be no additional sources.  On one tracks output I selected Dimension Pro 1, the soft synth track.  Seems kinda intuitive.
 
I set the Dimension synth track input to None (or most any of the other choices from "Dimension Pro 1", or "All Inputs" and various MIDI channels in these groups), and the output goes to Master.  But the Dimension track doesn't play.  It's output meters don't bounce no matter how I set the inputs and outputs.
 
This has been my problem forever with Sonar.  After more than ten years with this product I want to get over this one hurdle.  I have tried so many combinations of inputs and outputs, to no avail.  What can be my problem?


it's a bit confusing from your post but if that is the audio track then it needs to have as input the output from Din Pro

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mbunkerusa
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 17:12:51 (permalink)
No, the MIDI file doesn't play through the TTS-1 either.
 
I started over with a clean new project, imported the MIDI tracks and set up a single synth.
 
The MIDI tracks are imported from a pure MIDI song file with no controller data or Volume events.  One track is output to the TTS-1 synth currently, and the TTS-1 input is set to either "Virtual Controller Omni" or None, the only options available except "Manage Presets".  The synth is not triggered, and that is the current problem.
-Mike

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
Sonar Platinum, Roland Integra-7, Overture 5. HP laptop 4 cores, Windows 10-64 bit, 8 GB memory, lotsa disk.
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scook
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/03 17:32:07 (permalink)
The routing is incomplete. If MIDI tracks output to a synth there must be an audio track with the input set to the synth to play the audio. Or use an instrument as described in tutorial #4 http://www.cakewalk.com/D...;help=Tutorial4.1.html
 
 
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mbunkerusa
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 13:25:53 (permalink)
OK, I have been working on this problem for weeks.  It is a problem that I have had with each DAW since Pro-Audio.
 
I have a pre-recorded input MIDI track and am plugging it into a soft synth (I have tried several soft synths, TTS-1, DPro, etc.).  The problem is NOT capturing the audio from the soft synth.  It is that the synth is not triggering from the MIDI data.  I can see the MIDI data in the track window and that track is playing fine, per the output bar.
 
What could be simpler?  One MIDI track with data, plugged to a single soft-synth set to receive data from that track.  It all occurs within Sonar.  No external devices are involved!
 
There is something spooky here.  I have viewed several tutorials (U-Tube, Cakewalk tutorials, forum suggested tutorials from here and there).  I am desperate to get a soft synth to trigger.
post edited by mbunkerusa - 2015/05/17 13:49:49

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
Sonar Platinum, Roland Integra-7, Overture 5. HP laptop 4 cores, Windows 10-64 bit, 8 GB memory, lotsa disk.
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paulo
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 14:13:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby karhide 2015/05/17 14:54:11
If you put the midi file up somewhere I can d/l it I will try it for you on my system to see if I get the same problem.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 14:44:12 (permalink)
mbunkerusa
OK, I have been working on this problem for weeks.  It is a problem that I have had with each DAW since Pro-Audio.
 
I have a pre-recorded input MIDI track and am plugging it into a soft synth (I have tried several soft synths, TTS-1, DPro, etc.).  The problem is NOT capturing the audio from the soft synth.  It is that the synth is not triggering from the MIDI data.  I can see the MIDI data in the track window and that track is playing fine, per the output bar.
 
What could be simpler?  One MIDI track with data, plugged to a single soft-synth set to receive data from that track.  It all occurs within Sonar.  No external devices are involved!
 
There is something spooky here.  I have viewed several tutorials (U-Tube, Cakewalk tutorials, forum suggested tutorials from here and there).  I am desperate to get a soft synth to trigger.


So what happens if you (for now) bypass using your pre-recorded  Midi track and just enter some notes of your own?
 
Do they sound properly?
 
I assume you're going through the Insert > Soft Synth : Check "Midi Source" and "First Synth Audio Output" routine yes?

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karhide
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 14:52:20 (permalink)
Sounds like a midi routing problem and if you place the midi file somewhere it can be checked. Have you tried just adding a vsti and use the midi editor?

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 16:12:09 (permalink)
This is not clearly stated in your posts: How do you insert soft synths? By "Insert softsynth" with the necessary amount of outputs thus having all routings automatically correct? After that there should be no need for you to touch the ins/outs etc at all. Just drop the MIDI on the MIDI tracks. 
This is assuming that you can otherwise create tracks with softsynths normally (Referring to Jonesys comment, so there's nothing strange in the system).

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konradh
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Re: Soft synth won't sound 2015/05/17 19:19:35 (permalink)
Just curious for no reason: if you've never used Sonar for music, what have you been doing with it all this time?

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mbunkerusa
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Re: Soft synth won't sound - Resolved 2015/05/18 14:32:17 (permalink)
OK, I finally have a working song, but I'm not sure what I did to get the synth to trigger.  But once that was done the Master bus was bouncing along happily and I had sound in my speakers.  Here are a few of the things that I tried:
 
1.  I messed with the audio driver.  Switched to ASIO but found that there were no audio services on this computer for ASIO as the computer was set up with Beats Audio.  Switched back to the WASAPI driver and selected appropriate audio ins and outs via Preferences.
 
2.  I set the DPro synth track to receive input from the input choice named DimensionPro1.  This is probably what fixed it but I have seen NO reference to using this named input in the docs, and I had been focusing on the other input options with no results.  It never occurred to me that by inserting a synth, an input group would be assigned that would match all MIDI outputs assigned to this synth.  What a concept!
 
3.  When I deleted all of the extant synths via the synth rack (thanks to a tip from another thread) and re-added DPro, I chose the 'First Synth Audio Output' option instead of 'Simple Audio Track'.  This may have solved my problem too.  A proper tutorial with all of the input and output fine points would be wonderful.  Maybe I needed to search further into the documentation.
 
I'm not sure which of these changes made the difference, but the examples I referred to didn't help me with items 2 and 3 at all.  The examples and tutorials just skipped over any discussion of these I/O choices, they just set up an input MIDI stream, added a synth and it just played.  I really needed a walkthrough example with a little more detail.
 
To answer other questions:
I inserted the soft synth through menu item Insert=>Soft Synth=>VST2=>Dimension Pro.  Assuming that the audio track was built in to the synth.  I mean, there is no visible clue as to how to view the audio track attached to the synth.  Then I played with the synth inputs and outputs, trying to find a combination that allowed the synth to trigger.  Kalle, if when you say 'with the necessary number of outputs' you mean something other than choosing 'First Synth Audio Output' when I inserted the synth, I had no clue as to what these choices meant.
 
What have I been doing all of this time?  Over the years I have tried several times to get help via the forum, always losing interest and giving up when I couldn't make any headway.  I have used Sonar and its predecessors to clean up MIDI events in many GM files downloaded from the Internet.  Many times I had to remove some effect or program changes, or controller events, and Sonar is the only tool I have that can let me see inside a MIDI file.  You never know what you'll get with free MIDI off of the internet.  Some of the creators are caraaazy.
 
I use Overture, formerly a Cakewalk product, now available from SonicScores.com.  It is a score based notation program with excellent composition and playing features, including with VSTi's.  But sometimes a free MIDI file would cause the import into Overture to crash.  I would then take the file into Sonar to attempt to clean it up, but sometimes even that would prove unsuccessful.
 
Many thanks for everyone's thoughts.  They did help in the end.  The MIDI file which I imported was one of my own creation using Overture, so there was no possibility of anything weird in it.  But thanks for asking to test it.
-Mike
 
Mark this one as Resolved.

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
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scook
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Re: Soft synth won't sound - Resolved 2015/05/18 14:43:49 (permalink)
For info about the "Insert Soft Synth Options" dialog see http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Dialogs2.014.html
 
The short version is a synth requires either
  • "Simple Instrument Track" checked, this is a hybrid track containing both MIDI and audio tracks in one track
  • "MIDI Source" and one of the three audio output options.
It is possible to do everything by hand and ignore the options in the "Insert Soft Synth Options" dialog but it appears that may be what got you in trouble.
 
 
post edited by scook - 2015/05/18 14:50:07
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mbunkerusa
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Re: Soft synth won't sound - Resolved 2015/05/18 16:27:27 (permalink)
SCook - Yes, I believe that is exactly right.  And your explanation hits it right on he head.  I will copy it for future reference, and thank you soooo much.  Ten years of my life wasted on something so simple.  You're the King!  -Mike

Charles (Mike) Bunker, mbunkerusa@earthlink.net, Clearwater, FL
Sonar Platinum, Roland Integra-7, Overture 5. HP laptop 4 cores, Windows 10-64 bit, 8 GB memory, lotsa disk.
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