Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ???

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cparmerlee
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2014/03/03 00:50:44 (permalink)

Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ???

I am going crazy.  I thought I could do a Google search and find loads of product.  I am coming up completely blank.  I can't believe that there are no products for this, so I must not be using the right keywords.
 
I often need to edit interviews.  Often times there are awkward pauses, and grunts and things that really aren't welcome on the edited copy.  I have always peels these out manually using Audacity or Izotope RX3.  But I figure there must be software out there that will automatically reduce the pauses, which might take an interview from 80 seconds down to 60 without losing any content.  I bet radio stations do this all the time.  But I can't seem to find any titles.
 
Can somebody point me in the right direction?

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#1

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 01:25:06 (permalink)
    There is no substitute for doing it long hand.  An editor program like Cool Edit Pro or Adobe Audition makes it easier and way faster than trying to do it in a DAW.  In an editor you can just swipe the unwanted area, hit a key command and it is gone and everything moves down. Simple as that. You can't do that as easy in a DAW as such.
     
     

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    #2
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 01:42:03 (permalink)
    An interesting idea, really, but quite a big order. Like "normalizing breaks" by a certain ratio. I agree to that such a software does most likely not exist.
    If one existed, I wouldn't dare to use it. You'd have to carefully listen through the edited material anyway, and surely do corrections. In the end you'd spend  just the same time as doing it manually.
     
    A program like that might work for recordings made in studio environment, but anywhere on the field with background noises and several people talking at the same time..no. I see too many variables...but then again, most people thought Melodyne DNA was impossible :o/

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    #3
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 08:52:19 (permalink)
    Kalle Rantaaho
    An interesting idea, really, but quite a big order. Like "normalizing breaks" by a certain ratio. I agree to that such a software does most likely not exist.



    I am 99.99% certain software list this does exist in the broadcast industry.  They have systems that help them manage their 7-second delay seamlessly, and I think this works on the same principles.  I just don't agree that this should be such a daunting task.  Compared to some of the amazing tings we have seen in VSTs, this seems like child's play.  Basically it would be a noise gate (very well proven technology) combined with an algorithm that simply removes the silence left after processing the noise gate.  There would certainly need to be parameters to control how aggressive the editing is -- or maybe allow the user to specify an overall target length for the entire recording.  But I just don't see that as being particularly difficult compared to other things that people have produced in the universe of digital audio.
     
    Now, if we were talking about seamlessly removing video at the same time, that would be a much bigger problem because you would have to analyze the video to see where cuts could be made without being visually distracting, and possible blend together the pieces after the cut.  Again, I think that could be done, but that would be a big order.  Doing just the audio seems pretty simple to me.
     
    A more sophisticated version might recognize inflections, such as the cadence and pitch at the end of sentences and leave a little extra space at the end of sentences.  It might also remove "ya know" and other nervous utterances.  I don't expect software to do that today.
     
    Doing it by hand is really not a great option.  I'm looking at an hour long radio program from 1988 I'm trying to salvage and I think there is really about 20 minutes of good lively content there.  But I would literally have to remove some space in 300 places.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 09:44:55 (permalink)
    Since it's a single show you're trying to salvage, doing it manually is a labor of love. 
     
    Kinda like using melodyne to "automatically" fix a vocal track...... yeah, that is possible, the feature is there in melodyne, but the big question is, am I satisfied with the results?  Generally, the answer to that is no. So I do it manually. It takes longer but I know exactly what I want to have happen in a certain place with a certain note.
     
    If this was something you did for business and did it every day, all day, yeah, looking for a better way, a short cut, would be my primary goal.
     
    What Jeff said in post #2 would be the direction I would be most inclined to go if this was a project on my plate.

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    #5
    rumleymusic
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 12:36:48 (permalink)
    I am 99.99% certain software list this does exist in the broadcast industry.  They have systems that help them manage their 7-second delay seamlessly, and I think this works on the same principles.  I just don't agree that this should be such a daunting task.

     
    You are correct.  This functionality is available in some DAWs.  Sadie for certain which is the software of choice for the BBC, that process is not destructive.  Audition (CS6 and CC), which is found in about 90% of us radio broadcast studios, has a destructive "delete silence" command that works quite well also.  I prefer to do it manually. though, which really doesn't take much more time than listening to the material twice.  

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    #6
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 12:58:15 (permalink)
    rumleymusic
    This functionality is available in some DAWs.  Sadie for certain which is the software of choice for the BBC, that process is not destructive.  Audition (CS6 and CC), which is found in about 90% of us radio broadcast studios, has a destructive "delete silence" command that works quite well also. 

    Here is a product that seems to do exactly what I want to do:
     
    http://aescripts.com/awkward-pause/
     
    But unfortunately it is a script for Adobe Premiere, which I don't have and probably wouldn't buy just for this feature.  But it is nice to know I am not crazy.  Somebody is doing this.  I do this type of interview editing 4 or 5 times a year.  And if I had a tool like this, I would probably use it 15 times a year.

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    rumleymusic
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 13:05:34 (permalink)
    It is unlikely you will find a VST program that can do this for audio.  This kind of editing needs to be done at the program level and VSTs simply cannot do that. Video plugins and scripts are a little more sophisticated in that they can act as external batch processors and alter edits in the timeline.  But they have to be written for each program to be functional.  
     
    If you only do it 4,5 times a year, manual is probably your best bet.  Unless you have to do 5-6 per day on a time crunch, you will get better results that way.   

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    #8
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 13:13:37 (permalink)
    rumleymusic
    It is unlikely you will find a VST program that can do this for audio.  This kind of editing needs to be done at the program level



    I agree.  I am not looking for a VST.  I just mentioned VSTs as a point of comparison about program complexity.  It seems to me what I am asking for is only about 1% as complex as what some of the really amazing VSTs do.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 13:46:16 (permalink)
    SONAR has a Process > Remove Silence function that is basically a destructive gate that gives you the option to just flatline audio below the gate level or delete it, splitting the remaining audio into separate clips with gaps where the silence was.
     
    If you were able to get the gate settings right to have it delete only the significant pauses, you could then increase the tempo of the project to shorten all the pauses by the ratio of the old tempo to the new one (tempo only affects audio clip start times by default). Or you close all the gaps and set them manually using nudge.
     
    Nothing is going to fully automate this for you in SONAR, but Remove Silence may help speed the process of doing it manually. Just work with a copy of the clip, and keep applying/undoing with different values until you get the most workable result. Obviously you'll want to err on the side of caution to avoid losing meaningful information.
     
    That said. I had to do this a while ago with about an hour of poetry reading and I did it manually, deleting and closing up long pauses by dragging clips, and using volume automation to silence lip smacks and background noise in shorter pauses. It was a chore, but I'm pretty sure no software could have gotten it right without a lot of manual intervention.
     

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    #10
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 15:07:18 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    SONAR has a Process > Remove Silence function that is basically a destructive gate that gives you the option to just flatline audio below the gate level or delete it, splitting the remaining audio into separate clips with gaps where the silence was. ... then increase the tempo of the project to shorten all the pauses by the ratio of the old tempo to the new one



    Interesting idea.  I wasn't really thinking about doing this under SONAR, but I'll give that process a try.  Even if it isn't the result I need, I'll learn something in the process.  Thanks.

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/03 15:28:19 (permalink)
    If a DAW removes silence and creates a whole lot of separate clips then you will have to move them. Also you run the risk of clicks and things happening on the boundaries of the clips themselves. Moving them all is also slower. DAW's are not designed for this sort of work so much. You should have a proper editor anyway, they are very helpful.
     
    As I said a proper editor is better. Just swipe the unwanted area, single key command and its gone and all material moved down in one hit. Faster. Also you start to get good at identifying things like grunts and breaths and things too. You do have to make sure the waveform is sufficiently high enough as well so you can see the low level stuff a bit easier.  All these edits are non destructive too so if you accidently remove something important it is very easy to undo and go back to where you were a few seconds ago and re do something.
     
    It does not take very long to do even an hour of material. You should be able to do about an hour program edit in about two hours.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2014/03/03 16:53:43

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    sharke
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 02:00:29 (permalink)
    It definitely exists because I hear the end product all the time in video tutorials, especially those on Lynda.com and Groove3. They overuse it IMO - I've been watching a Bobby Owsinski mixing course and you can hear an edit in what seems like every second sentence or so. Overused like this, it sounds very unnatural and a bit irritating. 

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    Brando
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 10:37:43 (permalink)
    cparmerlee
    brundlefly
    SONAR has a Process > Remove Silence function that is basically a destructive gate that gives you the option to just flatline audio below the gate level or delete it, splitting the remaining audio into separate clips with gaps where the silence was. ... then increase the tempo of the project to shorten all the pauses by the ratio of the old tempo to the new one



    Interesting idea.  I wasn't really thinking about doing this under SONAR, but I'll give that process a try.  Even if it isn't the result I need, I'll learn something in the process.  Thanks.


    Never tried but I believe (free) audacity does this - http://manual.audacitytea.org/man/Truncate_Silence

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    #14
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 10:53:40 (permalink)
    Brando
    Never tried but I believe (free) audacity does this - http://manual.audacitytea.org/man/Truncate_Silence

    Thanks for that pointer.  I never noticed that in Audacity.  It seems like the parameters should give me enough control to make this sound natural.  With audio, I don't think it should be a big problem.  Video would be a much bigger problem making it appear seamless.
     
    On edit: I just tried this and it works GREAT !!!.  In under a minute I was able to remove 5 minutes from a 22-minute interview (not counting the part where they played music tracks) and it sounds perfectly natural.  It actually is easier to listen to than the original because I found some of the pauses annoyingly long.  I adjusted the Audacity defaults a little.  I set the silence threshold to -30 dB, space compression to 5:1 and the max pause to 900 ms.  I'll go back through and remove the grunts and other extraneous sounds, but that will only take 20 minutes.
    post edited by cparmerlee - 2014/03/06 11:21:43

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    Brando
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 11:43:05 (permalink)
    cparmerlee
    Brando
    Never tried but I believe (free) audacity does this - http://manual.audacitytea.org/man/Truncate_Silence

    Thanks for that pointer.  I never noticed that in Audacity.  It seems like the parameters should give me enough control to make this sound natural.  With audio, I don't think it should be a big problem.  Video would be a much bigger problem making it appear seamless.
     
    On edit: I just tried this and it works GREAT !!!.  In under a minute I was able to remove 5 minutes from a 22-minute interview (not counting the part where they played music tracks) and it sounds perfectly natural.  It actually is easier to listen to than the original because I found some of the pauses annoyingly long.  I adjusted the Audacity defaults a little.  I set the silence threshold to -30 dB, space compression to 5:1 and the max pause to 900 ms.  I'll go back through and remove the grunts and other extraneous sounds, but that will only take 20 minutes.


    Glad it worked. Definitely something I will keep in mind in the future when doing this type of thing myself.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 13:10:15 (permalink)
    Some of you may remember when somebody came on here a few years ago offering a paid job as a podcast editor. He provided a sample podcast and invited anyone interested in the gig to submit an edited version. I had intended to do so, but after editing the mind-numbingly boring podcast I realized that this was the audio equivalent of sweatshop piecework.
     
    At the time it occurred to me that there must be a software solution to at least aid in the process. I tried SONAR's "remove silence" feature but it sounded very unnatural, no matter how much I tweaked the settings. There seemed to be no alternative to manually listening to each pause and adjusting to suit the speaker's cadence and intent. It's hard and extremely tedious. 
     
    I listen to a lot of podcasts, and clumsy edits are the norm, even though most of them are audio-related podcasts and hosted by professional audio engineers. It's not that the editors don't know how to do it, it's just that after a few hours you get sloppy. If you're diligent, it'll take 3 or 4 hours to edit 1 hour of spoken word.
     
    The best approach, I think, would be a hybrid process: remove the largest pauses with Audacity and then tidy it up manually from there. (Thanks for pointing out this feature in Audacity - I didn't know it was there.)


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    cparmerlee
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    Re: Software to automatically shorten pauses in recorded speech ??? 2014/03/06 15:52:06 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    The best approach, I think, would be a hybrid process: remove the largest pauses with Audacity and then tidy it up manually from there.




    Yes, I agree.  That's what I did on this project.  Audacity's tool is an analogous to a dynamics compressor.  It doesn't automatically truncate all silence down to a set value.  If you are over the minimum value, it reduced the gap by a ratio (4:1 by default).  If you are still over the max gap size, it truncates down to the max size.  So with a ratio of 3:1 or 2:1, the original cadence is preserved (in relative terms).  In my case the interview was from 1988 with a couple of older guys who were slow-speakers to start with.  In 2014, this pace is excruciating, so I wanted to change the cadence.
     
    I probably did another 40 edits manually.  Some were to further tweak the cadence.  Others were to eliminate stutters.  And in some cases, there was enough background noise to throw off the Audacity tool, leaving 2- or 3-second gaps that I had to remove manually.
     
    I think there are "zero crossing" settings in Audacity that can help eliminate pops at the edit points.  But I didn't do that properly and ended up with a couple dozen light pops.  I simply ran this through Izotope RX3 to eliminate those editing artifacts.
     
    After speeding up the cadence and clearing out most of the time spent playing audio tracks, what was originally a 50-minute recording is now a higher-impact 20-minute program.

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