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Sixfinger
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2011/07/11 21:15:33 (permalink)

Solo question Solved

It seems as though when I solo an istrument such as a hi hat, or a vocal, I still hear the effects like reverb on the guitars ( when the effect is on a bus and a send is used)
 
Any way to get a true solo happening?
post edited by Sixfinger - 2011/07/12 09:10:51

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    rbowser
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 01:30:15 (permalink)
    Sixfinger


    It seems as though when I solo an istrument such as a hi hat, or a vocal, I still hear the effects like reverb on the guitars ( when the effect is on a bus and a send is used)
     
    Any way to get a true solo happening?


    You've described exactly what happens when multiple tracks are sharing an FX bus - and that's only logical.  You need to mute dry, with the send or bus temporarily muted.

    RB

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    frankandfree
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 08:03:37 (permalink)
    rbowser


    Sixfinger


    It seems as though when I solo an istrument such as a hi hat, or a vocal, I still hear the effects like reverb on the guitars ( when the effect is on a bus and a send is used)

    Any way to get a true solo happening?


    You've described exactly what happens when multiple tracks are sharing an FX bus - and that's only logical.  You need to mute dry, with the send or bus temporarily muted.


    RB

    How is that logical?
    Say I have a guitar and a vocal track. Both have a send to a bus with a reverb on it. Now when I solo the guitar track I expect that the vocal track is silenced, which in turn means that the send of the vocal track leads no signal, which further means there is no vocal arriving at the reverb bus. Result: Soloing the guitar track silences the vocal and it's reverb. I hear only the guitar track and guitar reverb.

    That's what happens here using another DAW. I cannot test in Sonar anymore, unfortunately, but I'd really scratch my head if it was different.

    If I solo the reverb bus, I hear the reverberated portion (and only that) of all tracks that are sent to it. So If I solo the reverb bus plus the guitar track, I have the situation the OP is in: I hear the dry guitar and the wet portion of both guitar and vocal.


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    John T
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 08:10:21 (permalink)
    That's how Sonar works for me. Maybe there's an obscure setting somewhere. But by default, the sends appear to be post the solo and mute buttons.

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    frankandfree
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 08:21:36 (permalink)
    Ah *phew*.

    Thanks, John.
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    c5_convertible
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 08:46:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mdages 2015/08/26 09:09:16
    I'm not sure if it will help you, but I found something in the reference manual, on page 811. It shows a diagram of the signal flow. It says (in the middle of the page) "Pre fader sends are affected by M-S buttons unless you change the LinkPFSendMute aud.ini option". So, if I get this right, unless you are using post fader sends (which I believe you can set using the button in the sends inspector), it should work correctly. Maybe the setting is incorrect for you in aud.ini? See page 1229 in the manual on how to check.

    I'm still learning Sonar, which is why I speak in conditional terms, and why I qoute the manual, as I've glanced through it... Haven't used Sonar much yet...
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    Crg
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 08:48:30 (permalink)
    Sixfinger


    It seems as though when I solo an istrument such as a hi hat, or a vocal, I still hear the effects like reverb on the guitars ( when the effect is on a bus and a send is used)
     
    Any way to get a true solo happening?


    Send the Hi-hat to a seperate buss if you want to solo it. You can have more than one.

    Craig DuBuc
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    Sixfinger
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 09:10:13 (permalink)
    c5_convertible


    I'm not sure if it will help you, but I found something in the reference manual, on page 811. It shows a diagram of the signal flow. It says (in the middle of the page) "Pre fader sends are affected by M-S buttons unless you change the LinkPFSendMute aud.ini option". So, if I get this right, unless you are using post fader sends (which I believe you can set using the button in the sends inspector), it should work correctly. Maybe the setting is incorrect for you in aud.ini? See page 1229 in the manual on how to check.

    I'm still learning Sonar, which is why I speak in conditional terms, and why I qoute the manual, as I've glanced through it... Haven't used Sonar much yet...

    Thank you, this is a perfect solution for me. It now works as I expect and I can hear the track of interest alone with one click.
     
    A note of interest, I found two AUD.INI
     
    C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Cakewalk\SONAR X1 Producer         this one worked
    C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR X1 Producer               the one in here had no affect...
     

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    rbowser
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 10:47:22 (permalink)
    c5_convertible


    I'm not sure if it will help you, but I found something in the reference manual, on page 811. It shows a diagram of the signal flow. It says (in the middle of the page) "Pre fader sends are affected by M-S buttons unless you change the LinkPFSendMute aud.ini option". So, if I get this right, unless you are using post fader sends (which I believe you can set using the button in the sends inspector), it should work correctly. Maybe the setting is incorrect for you in aud.ini? See page 1229 in the manual on how to check.
    ...


    That's kinda neat, thanks for the post, c5_convertible, except that it's rare to want or need Pre fader sends.  So this solution would call for a temporary change to Pre and then back to Post after the Soloing - which isn't much hassle really, but I wanted to point that out.

    Randy B.

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 10:57:54 (permalink)
    c5_convertible


     

    I'm still learning Sonar, which is why I speak in conditional terms, and why I qoute the manual, as I've glanced through it... Haven't used Sonar much yet...

    Oooh...that's music to my eyes ( :o/ ??) ! If there only were more folks like you. I don't mean the quoting, but the fact that to quote you'll have to read first! There are so many who come here to be spoonfed and get annoyed if you hint them about the existence of a Reference Manual.


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    Sixfinger
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 13:31:18 (permalink)
    For clarity, by changing the LinkPFSendMute aud.ini option to a value of  1,  I do not need to use pre fader, It just solo's without the FX send.
     
    Most pleasing!
    post edited by Sixfinger - 2011/07/12 13:32:46

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    c5_convertible
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 14:43:42 (permalink)
    Kalle Rantaaho


    c5_convertible




    I'm still learning Sonar, which is why I speak in conditional terms, and why I qoute the manual, as I've glanced through it... Haven't used Sonar much yet...

    Oooh...that's music to my eyes ( :o/ ??) ! If there only were more folks like you. I don't mean the quoting, but the fact that to quote you'll have to read first! There are so many who come here to be spoonfed and get annoyed if you hint them about the existence of a Reference Manual.

    Thanks. I agree with you... :) It is strange, but for one reason or the other, I like reading manuals. I must be weird ... I'm going throught he reference manual (which is a very large doorstop if I would print it - thank god for kindles and iPads) and reading Scott's book. To be honest, Scott's book is more fun to read.. Unfortunately, Scott's book cannot be bought in Belgium for the Kindle...
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    rbowser
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 14:56:25 (permalink)
    Sixfinger


    For clarity, by changing the LinkPFSendMute aud.ini option to a value of  1,  I do not need to use pre fader, It just solo's without the FX send.
     
    Most pleasing!


    Ah!  Thanks for that, Sixfinger - The section in the manual quoted said "pre-fader" as if that was the only mode this aud.ini would change.  Cool that it works on the more commonly needed post-fader.

    RB

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    Bub
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 15:22:13 (permalink)
    It's kind of weird how the buses are set up, or it's logical and I just don't get it (which is more likely).

    You can only assign an effects bus to the Master bus if the output of the effects bus is set to one of your software outputs. It can't be set to output to the Master bus.

    Also, if you create a send by right clicking on your Master bus, you do not have the option to set the output of that bus you just created set to the Master bus. It forces it's output directly to your sound card drivers main output.

    I discovered it when I was working on the Master Bus and I had Track View enabled. I had a limiter set to -1.0 on my Master, but the software output was going up to +3. I did some digging in my buses and discovered that the bus I created through the Master Bus had it's outputs set directly to the same outputs that my Master Bus was set to. Problem was, I couldn't change it. It seems if you create a bus through your Master, you can only have it's output set directly to your audio card.

    Like I said, I'm sure there's some reason for this, but I'm not getting it.
    post edited by Bub - 2011/07/12 15:24:25

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    codamedia
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 18:57:31 (permalink)
    Also, if you create a send by right clicking on your Master bus, you do not have the option to set the output of that bus you just created set to the Master bus. It forces it's output directly to your sound card drivers main output.

     
    If you could actually send it back to the master would it not just create a nasty infinite loop?
     
    Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master >  etc... etc... etc....
     
    Unless I am missing something this design likely saves a lot of blown monitors and eardrums, possibly even lawsuits 
     
     
     

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    Bub
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/12 19:38:08 (permalink)
    codamedia



    Also, if you create a send by right clicking on your Master bus, you do not have the option to set the output of that bus you just created set to the Master bus. It forces it's output directly to your sound card drivers main output.

     
    If you could actually send it back to the master would it not just create a nasty infinite loop?
     
    Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master > Master > FX Buss > Master >  etc... etc... etc....
     
    Unless I am missing something this design likely saves a lot of blown monitors and eardrums, possibly even lawsuits 
    I know what you mean. I've had this going around in my head trying to rationalize it since I picked up on it.

    It can mess up your mixes, especially if you mix/master in the same project which you should be fully capable of doing these days with all the processing power from i5/i7's. If you mix your Master to a certain db level and there's a separate output effecting your exported wav so it's hotter than what the Master shows and you have no way to rectify it ... that's a bit a problem. The simple answer is to just put the effect in the FX Bin, but that begs the question, why even have the option to have a send in the Master Bus if you are forced to route it to an uncontrollable output?






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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/13 05:23:25 (permalink)
    Surely the simple answers is that your Master bus is, as far as Sonar is concerned, just another in a long line of busses that you yourself have inserted yes?

    There is no designated Master Bus until such time as you create it (or load from a template)

    Or am I totally missing the point (again)?

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    Bub
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    Re:Solo question 2011/07/13 13:53:23 (permalink)
    You're 'Master' bus is the one that has it's outputs set to your audio card. It can be in any position or called anything, but it's traditionally in the 1st position in the bus section and named 'Master'.

    Your FX Buses cannot be assigned to the 'Master' if their output is set to the 'Master'. It doesn't even show up in the list of available sends on the 'Master'. But, if you change the output of the FX Bus to your audio card, then it shows up in the list of sends on the 'Master' bus.

    I was mistaken when I said you were forced to create a bus through the Master. You don't have to do that ... all you have to do is change the output of the FX Bus directly to your audio card, then it will show up in the Master bus.

    In my mind, it's bad to have multiple buses assigned to your audio card, but I could be wrong. I've always had one bus named 'Master' set to my audio card and the rest routed to the 'Master'. That's how all the templates are set up and that's how I've always done it.
     
    I could see if you were mixing to hardware how multiple buses routed to your sound card would be ok, but if you were mixing 100% in the box I would think you would only want 1 bus going to the sound card?

    Maybe it's just an unspoken rule, or one that is written and I missed it , that you don't put any sends on the 'Master' and just use the FX bin?

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