annifarkle
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[Solved] A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
I accidentally created a project and had gotten pretty far along when my Audio engine started really struggling. Discovered I had used a sampling rate of 96000 and my audio interface (Audient iD14) just isn't liking it. Is there a way to shift all the audio to a lower sampling rate? How do I get this project into a useable one? Thanks for any help
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annifarkle
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/18 17:26:36
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Anderton
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/18 18:26:25
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annifarkle
I did a little research which I should have done before... Actually I'm kind of glad you didn't, this question gets asked a lot so it never hurts to remind people there's an easy solution.
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mettelus
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/18 20:29:35
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That link should be updated, since it is repeating the export (Steps 1-3) and can be done in one fell swoop. If you select all audio tracks, in the export dialog and select Source Category as "Tracks" then whatever you type into the "File name" field prefaces the given track name on export. This does still muck up track ordering and force a game of "go fish" as well as setting up the new to look like the old (yada, yada). SONAR does SRC on import as it is, so is hard to see why SONAR cannot simply "release" the audio engine/driver and convert a cwp "in place" - just call up the import algorithm for all audio in the project with the audio interface fully disengaged. For those audio interfaces requiring sample rate changes at the interface, at least the project could be saved, closed, and the interface adjusted before reopening (and look exactly like the original, just at a new sample rate). Basically a "convoluted bounce procedure."
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Anderton
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/18 22:11:58
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2016/03/18 22:46:40
mettelus
SONAR does SRC on import as it is, so is hard to see why SONAR cannot simply "release" the audio engine/driver and convert a cwp "in place" - just call up the import algorithm for all audio in the project with the audio interface fully disengaged. For those audio interfaces requiring sample rate changes at the interface, at least the project could be saved, closed, and the interface adjusted before reopening (and look exactly like the original, just at a new sample rate). Well I've only changed sample rates on one project in the past five years so I'm not an expert, but IIRC if the project uses groove clips or some types of DSP, you won't get the results you expect simply by converting the underlying audio. Rendering, bouncing, and re-importing is the only way I can think of to retain these kinds of in-project changes that point to audio files.
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mettelus
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/18 23:02:36
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Now I am sort of confused, as you say the "solution" is easy, and only done it once? Then you have "made a conclusion" for CAKEWALK which is definitely not in the interest of end-users... a bounce in place works on groove clips now (you just have to re-groove them), and what DSP functions at one sample rate but not at others?
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Anderton
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 01:02:50
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mettelus
Now I am sort of confused, as you say the "solution" is easy, and only done it once?
Well don't you think it's easier than what some others have suggested about taking the files in the project audio folder and sample rate converting them in a program like Audacity or Sound Forge...especially since if you do that, which is what I tried first, there can be problems? I found exporting/importing much easier as I explained in this thread, where also, Noel explains why the kind of anomalies I experienced can occur, and why sample rate converting outside of SONAR isn't a good idea. Although I have not had lots of personal experiences with sample rate converting projects, I've read about peoples' experiences with trying to do the same in multiple threads. Then you have "made a conclusion" for CAKEWALK which is definitely not in the interest of end-users... a bounce in place works on groove clips now (you just have to re-groove them), and what DSP functions at one sample rate but not at others? See the thread referenced above. Also note that I presented no "conclusion," everything I said was heavily qualified..."I'm not an expert"..."IIRC"..."is the only way I can think of" but after finding the thread referenced above that discussed this topic, it looks like I did indeed recall correctly. I realize the necessity for the OP to change sample rates due to computer limitations, but if that's not a factor, it's just so much easier to mix a project at its native sample rate, then sample rate convert the final mix. And for those who are concerned about potential degradation due to sample rate conversion, it's also better to sample rate convert a two track master than each track being mixed (not that I think anyone would notice a difference, but you never know).
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annifarkle
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 19:11:52
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OK I did the exporting (each file individually since I didn't know about the ability to do them all at once) and then tried to bypass the "making a new project file". And even though the files I imported were at the sampling rate I wanted, Sonar wouldn't let me change the sample rate for the project. So I created the new file, and imported the audio. This left me with five racks of midi and synths to move to the new file. I then added back effects, eq settings, changed the colors on tracks and placed them in the right order, etc. All told it ate up a good bit of time. I don't understand why this process hasn't been streamline by just auto converting audio to the sample rate when you change it so that you don't have to recreate the whole damn project. BTW most of the tech talk above was over my head. I did get a few things in it - like don't use other software to convert sample rates.  Thank you for the replies
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Anderton
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 19:48:31
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I'm not saying it's easy but there should be ways to simplify the process like saving track templates then loading them, having two projects open at the same time and dragging effects between them, saving a ProChannel's settings as a "temp" preset then bringing it into the other project, etc. I may investigate this further, I have a couple projects at high sample rates and can see what works and what doesn't. Might make a good "Friday's Tip of the Week" if there's a relatively easy way to do it. However, I don't know how often people need to do this...setting sample rate and bit depths are kind of fundamental things to do when starting a project. As I mentioned, I've needed to do this once in five years, but I don't know if that's typical or whether there's a genuine and frequent need to be able to change sample rates around while in mid-project. Doesn't seem like it would happen that often, but I don't have any idea...where are Cakewalk's analytics when we need them?
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annifarkle
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 20:38:28
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Anderton
I'm not saying it's easy but there should be ways to simplify the process like saving track templates then loading them, having two projects open at the same time and dragging effects between them, saving a ProChannel's settings as a "temp" preset then bringing it into the other project, etc. I may investigate this further, I have a couple projects at high sample rates and can see what works and what doesn't. Might make a good "Friday's Tip of the Week" if there's a relatively easy way to do it.
However, I don't know how often people need to do this...setting sample rate and bit depths are kind of fundamental things to do when starting a project. As I mentioned, I've needed to do this once in five years, but I don't know if that's typical or whether there's a genuine and frequent need to be able to change sample rates around while in mid-project. Doesn't seem like it would happen that often, but I don't have any idea...where are Cakewalk's analytics when we need them?
It may be that it only happens once in awhile but when it does... depending on the size of the project it could be really awful for someone who has a huge project. Mine was relatively small and was still a pain. Also - I did open two windows and drag and drop the midi. I didn't even think to try to do the same with the plugins. It would be great if could just drag all the synth instrument tracks along with the midi from one to the other. Didn't try that either. Thanks for your comments Anderton and I look forward to hearing the results of your experiments with this.
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tenfoot
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 21:33:01
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Anderton
I'm not saying it's easy but there should be ways to simplify the process like saving track templates then loading them, having two projects open at the same time and dragging effects between them, saving a ProChannel's settings as a "temp" preset then bringing it into the other project, etc. I may investigate this further, I have a couple projects at high sample rates and can see what works and what doesn't. Might make a good "Friday's Tip of the Week" if there's a relatively easy way to do it.
However, I don't know how often people need to do this...setting sample rate and bit depths are kind of fundamental things to do when starting a project. As I mentioned, I've needed to do this once in five years, but I don't know if that's typical or whether there's a genuine and frequent need to be able to change sample rates around while in mid-project. Doesn't seem like it would happen that often, but I don't have any idea...where are Cakewalk's analytics when we need them?
To make the process of changing sample rates of projects even harder, the render sample rate setting in preferences is currently broken for the bounce to track setting. If you change it after after you have created a project and recorded any tracks it has no effect. If you check the rendered file you will find it is still at the original bit rate. My tip of the week would be for the bakers to fix it. I guess the fact no one has noticed it shows how often people change the sample rate.
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microapp
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 21:40:37
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Anderton
I'm not saying it's easy but there should be ways to simplify the process like saving track templates then loading them, having two projects open at the same time and dragging effects between them, saving a ProChannel's settings as a "temp" preset then bringing it into the other project, etc. I may investigate this further, I have a couple projects at high sample rates and can see what works and what doesn't. Might make a good "Friday's Tip of the Week" if there's a relatively easy way to do it.
However, I don't know how often people need to do this...setting sample rate and bit depths are kind of fundamental things to do when starting a project. As I mentioned, I've needed to do this once in five years, but I don't know if that's typical or whether there's a genuine and frequent need to be able to change sample rates around while in mid-project. Doesn't seem like it would happen that often, but I don't have any idea...where are Cakewalk's analytics when we need them?
Not trying to hijack the OP here but... Craig, your last statement illustrates a problem with reliance on analytics to guide product development. I thought the analytics were to be primarily targeted toward accumulating fault information (automated bug tracking) but this seems to imply more than that. Assume for the sake of argument it is not easy to SRC a Sonar project. I do SRC outside Sonar for this reason so this is not a hypothetical for me.(I tried it once). Assume many others do the same. Yet analytics will show that SRC is of little user interest while in reality users may have simply abandoned that feature because it is too difficult to use (or may not function correctly). It would be difficult to determine how many users actually desire better project SRC from analytics alone. Here, I am assuming that the upcoming analytics will simply inform Cakewalk of what features are being used in Sonar (and of errors). If the analytics are complex enough to indicate that in one session a project's SR is 44.1K and next session it is 96K (without an import conversion) therefore the SRC must have been external, then I think we have other issues. The first and foremost being Cake should take the analytics development time and apply it to features/bugs that have appeared on this forum for years.
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Anderton
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 22:17:53
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Of course, analytics can't show how much people like or don't like features that don't exist. I included the smiley because I wasn't being all that serious...I don't think the analytics as currently described are capable of reading intention. But it's important to remember, as has been stated numerous time by Cakewalk staff, that analytics are only one factor Cakewalk plans to use in trying to determine how people use the program. None of the existing methods, including surveys sent to users, forum monitoring, crash reports, the upcoming feedback portal, etc. will be replaced. I don't know the details, but I suspect one of the greatest value of analytics will be to test reaction to new features. For example, if no one uses Style Dials, I assume Cakewalk wouldn't develop them any further. But if lots of people use them, I expect we'd see more. This is one kind of data where I think analytics would be much more useful than random opinion sampling in the forums. The first and foremost being Cake should take the analytics development time and apply it to features/bugs that have appeared on this forum for years. From what I understand the analytics module was designed quite a while ago for another product, has a light footprint, and was simple to fold into Sonar. It's clear Cakewalk is making an effort to clean up bugs and optimize the program, but I suspect all bugs are not equal, and anything that will help the Bakers prioritize their to-do list would be beneficial.
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John
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 22:30:42
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I had to change the sample rate on a project some years back. I use Voxengo's R8brain http://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/ which is free. I used the batch processing to do the conversion. I don't recall it being very difficult.
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microapp
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Re: A way to convert a project from 96 sampling rate to a lower rate?
2016/03/19 23:56:33
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John
I had to change the sample rate on a project some years back. I use Voxengo's R8brain http://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/ which is free. I used the batch processing to do the conversion. I don't recall it being very difficult.
R8Brain is what I use too. It even has a batch mode.
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