Answered[Solved] Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering

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Michael.b
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2017/03/31 07:35:05 (permalink)

[Solved] Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering

Hello,

I am using Sonar Platinum with the latest March update on Windows 10. My audio interface is the Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 with ASIO driver.

I have a small score of 8 MIDI tracks playing through the ARIA Player. The MIDI plays ok. When I bounce these to a single stereo audio track I have crackling and stuttering during the last two bars/measures.

The audio file levels are below -14 Db so are definitely not clipping.

I should mention that when I try the exact same MIDI file on this very same system with the exact same settings and levels in Reaper and Cubase 9 the audio track plays back without the above interference. I hasten to add that that I'm not looking to abandon Sonar, this was purely a 'process of elimination' exercise.

In Sonar, when working with the score including bouncing, my system resources are well within limits; my i7 processor is below 10% and memory (32 gig) is at 8%. However When I 'freeze' the softsynth tracks in Sonar, playback is now ok. This doesn't make sense to me as I thought the 'freezing' process worked by using less resources yet I have loads available. Also, as mentioned, the same file on this same system in the other DAWS with exactly the same resources are fine.

In Sonar I have also tried increasing latency and buffer but this made no difference. I have also tried using the new UWP MIDI driver.  

I'm confident and positive about Cakewalk and Sonar Platinum and if other DAWS can process this small MIDI score without problems then I'm sure the mighty Sonar can. It's just finding that elusive setting.

I'd really appreciate any help with this and thank you.
post edited by Michael.b - 2017/03/31 19:00:06
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 07:54:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:01
    You may want to take a look at the "Prepare Using nnn Millisecond Buffers" in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording.
     
    The default was changed from 500 to 250 with X1. Many users find the old default or even higher works better.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #2
    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 08:49:10 (permalink)
    Hello Bristol_Jonesy,
     
    Thanks for your reply, it's much appreciated.
     
    I tried your suggestion but no luck.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 10:52:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:17
    Just throwing this out there, do you have any tempo changes at the point where the stuttering occurs?

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 11:18:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:20
    Can you reproduce this every time ? in the same place every time ?
    It might be due to something else. it does sound like a classic case of buffer adjustment.
    The ASIO drivers your using you downloaded from Focusrite ?

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 12:39:57 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Just throwing this out there, do you have any tempo changes at the point where the stuttering occurs?


    No tempo changes in the file at all.
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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 12:55:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:26
    Okay
     
    Crackles, pops, exc are caused by 3 main things.
     
    - Buffer rate
    - Wireless interference
    - Bad connections
     
    The questions I asked was to try and narrow down which one it is.
     
    Good luck

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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    scook
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 12:56:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:32
    May want to visit AUD.ini. The settings may be edited in Preference > Audio > Configuration File. To see "Configuration File" option make sure the Advanced radio button is selected at the bottom of the Preferences dialog.
     
    There are three variables I might tweak to see what happens
    • ExtraPluginBufs - maybe start with 32 (This is what I use but like all these setting there is no magic number that applies for every setup)
    • AllowOfflineRenderMixThreads - normally enabled, try turning it off for this bounce only
    • BounceBufSizeMsec - set to the max, 350 for this bounce only
    Tweak them individually before trying combinations. The is not much information about these settings but what there is may be found here
    #8
    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 13:04:29 (permalink)
    chuckebaby
    Can you reproduce this every time ? in the same place every time ?
    It might be due to something else. it does sound like a classic case of buffer adjustment.
    The ASIO drivers your using you downloaded from Focusrite ?


    Hello chuckebaby,
     
    thanks for your help.
     
    Yes, it happens in the same place each time. The ASIO drivers are direct from Focusrite and their latest drivers.
     
    I've rechecked the buffers; here's a screenshot. In this you can see one reference set at zero and greyed out. In the other you can see the ASIO Panel buffers are set at max 10ms. I don't know if that greyed out bit is causing the problem!

     Thanks.
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    scook
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 13:10:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:42
    The SONAR Preference screen looks OK. The Buffer Size slider is not used in ASIO driver mode. The audio interface software controls buffer size in ASIO mode.
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 13:30:51 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Michael.b 2017/03/31 14:40:14
    This should have nothing to do with ASIO settings, as the audio interface is not involved in rendering operations (unless it's an audible render). It's entirely possible, however, that it's some kind of buffer starvation - just not audio buffers.
     
    The clue is that you can freeze individual tracks OK but have the problem when exporting the entire mix at once. Technically, both are exactly the same process - except for any master bus processing that would be included in a full export but not a track bounce.
     
    PumpDataMSec would be my first stop. This TTSSEQ.INI setting corresponds to the "Prepare Using ____ Millisecond Buffers" (Preferences -> Playback and Recording). Some bus effects, e.g. linear-phase EQs and other plugins with large internal buffering, can cause dropouts with virtual instruments. In my case, on my old computer I had to set this parameter to 1000 when using Ozone's most-demanding modules.
     
    Try, as an experiment, bypassing all effects before exporting and see if the dropouts still occur.
     
    Stretching into less-likely territory, it could also be caused by an I/O bottleneck. Try a slow bounce. If the slow bounce succeeds but a normal fast bounce fails, it could be a case of drives not keeping up or insufficient RAM for Kontakt preload buffers. 


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 13:49:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:58:57
    Just as a quick test, try unchecking the 64 bit double precision engine (in your screenshot).
    FYI- No worry's about the slider being grayed out, that's normal (your Focusrite controls the size/length).
     

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:16:00 (permalink)
    scook
    May want to visit AUD.ini. The settings may be edited in Preference > Audio > Configuration File. To see "Configuration File" option make sure the Advanced radio button is selected at the bottom of the Preferences dialog.
     
    There are three variables I might tweak to see what happens
    • ExtraPluginBufs - maybe start with 32 (This is what I use but like all these setting there is no magic number that applies for every setup)
    • AllowOfflineRenderMixThreads - normally enabled, try turning it off for this bounce only
    • BounceBufSizeMsec - set to the max, 350 for this bounce only
    Tweak them individually before trying combinations. The is not much information about these settings but what there is may be found here

    Hello Scook,


    Thanks for your input; I appreciate it.
     
    Right .. here goes .. I tried the following individually as you suggested.
     
    * ExtraPluginBufs: This was set at zero so I set it at 32. Result ~ I had a clean bounce, no crackles, fizzes, pops or stuttering.

    * BounceBufSizeMsec: This was also set at zero so I tried 250. Result ~ I had a clean bounce, no crackles, fizzes, pops or stuttering.

    * AllowOfflineRenderMixThreads: As both the above appear to work, I left this at default (Enabled).

     
    Regarding the BounceBufSizeMsec, you mention setting "for this bounce only" so is not 'safe' to leave this at my setting?
     
    At this point this seems to have resolved things but knowing my luck the fizzes will be back tomorrow.  I'll try a few more this afternoon just to confirm.
     
    Thanks very much.
     
     
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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:44:26 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    This should have nothing to do with ASIO settings, as the audio interface is not involved in rendering operations (unless it's an audible render). It's entirely possible, however, that it's some kind of buffer starvation - just not audio buffers.
     
    The clue is that you can freeze individual tracks OK but have the problem when exporting the entire mix at once. Technically, both are exactly the same process - except for any master bus processing that would be included in a full export but not a track bounce.
     
    PumpDataMSec would be my first stop. This TTSSEQ.INI setting corresponds to the "Prepare Using ____ Millisecond Buffers" (Preferences -> Playback and Recording). Some bus effects, e.g. linear-phase EQs and other plugins with large internal buffering, can cause dropouts with virtual instruments. In my case, on my old computer I had to set this parameter to 1000 when using Ozone's most-demanding modules.
     
    Try, as an experiment, bypassing all effects before exporting and see if the dropouts still occur.
     
    Stretching into less-likely territory, it could also be caused by an I/O bottleneck. Try a slow bounce. If the slow bounce succeeds but a normal fast bounce fails, it could be a case of drives not keeping up or insufficient RAM for Kontakt preload buffers. 


    Hello biflipper,
     
    Thanks for your help.
     
    The ExtraPluginBufs and AllowOfflineRenderMixThreads suggested by Scook seem to have worked and bouncing to audio now has clean audio.

     
    I shall also try your suggestions.
     
    Incidentally, I have tried to reply to Skook but my posts disappear.
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    gustabo
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:46:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:59:12
    Have you tried a realtime bounce instead of a fast bounce?


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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:50:14 (permalink)
    chuckebaby
    Just as a quick test, try unchecking the 64 bit double precision engine (in your screenshot).
    FYI- No worry's about the slider being grayed out, that's normal (your Focusrite controls the size/length).
     


    Thanks for the info chuckebaby. Skook's suggestions appear to work although it would be just my luck the interference returns tomorrow. I'll also try your suggestion as well.
     
    PS I don't know know what's up with the posting, some of my posts are disappearing.
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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:52:13 (permalink)
    gustabo
    Have you tried a realtime bounce instead of a fast bounce?


    Hello Gustabo,
    Thanks for your suggestion. Yes, I did try that with the same result.
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    scook
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 14:55:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Michael.b 2017/03/31 18:59:23
    The spam blocker deleted your posts. I put one of them back.
     
    Michael.b
    Regarding the BounceBufSizeMsec, you mention setting "for this bounce only" so is not 'safe' to leave this at my setting?

    It is probably OK but I have no experience leaving it set at anything other than the default. I do have ExtraPluginBufs set to 32 and have read that others have found a non-default value setting useful.
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    Michael.b
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    Re: Bouncing MIDI To Audio Crackles and Stuttering 2017/03/31 15:05:04 (permalink)
    scook
    The spam blocker deleted your posts. I put one of them back.
     
    Michael.b
    Regarding the BounceBufSizeMsec, you mention setting "for this bounce only" so is not 'safe' to leave this at my setting?

    It is probably OK but I have no experience leaving it set at anything other than the default. I do have ExtraPluginBufs set to 32 and have read that others have found a non-default value setting useful.


    Thanks Skook, much appreciated.
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