Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/30 22:35:34
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Does running SONAR as admin addresses this specific issue?
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msorrels
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 00:21:58
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I suspect I've never had a problem with Sampletank 2 (in any version of Sonar) because I don't install anything on my C: drive normally. So it's issue never really came up. But something has changed in how Bit Bridge works that is causing Sampletank to now have an admin right issue it's never had before.
Running Sonar as Admin does seem to get around it, but it's not an ideal solution though. Perhaps if I understood what has changed I could mitigate it?
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timp410
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 01:11:28
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Noel, I will give this a it a try in the morning.
Motherboard: ASUS Z97-A Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 Quad-Core Desktop Processor 3.4 GHZ LGA 1150 8 MB Cache Power Supply: Corsair CX Series 600 Watt Video: EVGA GeForce GT 730 2GB GDDR3 64-bit Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP Steinberg UR44 E-MU 1820M Edirol UA-25EX M-Audio Midisport 4x4
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alfabooty
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 01:19:05
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subtlearts
Sampletank 2 runs fine here under Everett, as long as I run Sonar as administrator - otherwise it fails. It's been like that for some time now though.
I just re-install ST2 (2.5.4) still ST2 is working fine & I run Sonar as Admin. I can confirm what 'subtlearts' wrote is true. Tim410 you should give it a try..
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (X64) - Sonar Platinum, Cubase 9.5 Pro - ASUS Z87-Plus (1150) - Intel Core i7-4790 Quad-Core Processor 3.60 - Corsair CX 600 PSU - GTX760 Direct CU II OC GPU - Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400Mhz (32gb) RAM - RME UFX with Lync Aurora 16 - UAD 2 Quad DSP Prosessor - M-Audio Axiom61 Pro
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timp410
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 01:30:38
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Thanks Alfabooty and subtlearts for verifying this, something has definilty changed in this new release. I did not need to elevate privilegies before.
Motherboard: ASUS Z97-A Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 Quad-Core Desktop Processor 3.4 GHZ LGA 1150 8 MB Cache Power Supply: Corsair CX Series 600 Watt Video: EVGA GeForce GT 730 2GB GDDR3 64-bit Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP Steinberg UR44 E-MU 1820M Edirol UA-25EX M-Audio Midisport 4x4
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alfabooty
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 01:56:38
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timp410
Thanks Alfabooty and subtlearts for verifying this, something has definilty changed in this new release. I did not need to elevate privilegies before.
Indeed. Since the new Platinum the more they fixing stuff & at the same time they broke it.
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (X64) - Sonar Platinum, Cubase 9.5 Pro - ASUS Z87-Plus (1150) - Intel Core i7-4790 Quad-Core Processor 3.60 - Corsair CX 600 PSU - GTX760 Direct CU II OC GPU - Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400Mhz (32gb) RAM - RME UFX with Lync Aurora 16 - UAD 2 Quad DSP Prosessor - M-Audio Axiom61 Pro
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 09:24:06
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msorrels
Running Sonar as Admin does seem to get around it, but it's not an ideal solution though. Perhaps if I understood what has changed I could mitigate it?
Thank you - this is useful information. Bitbridge was rebuilt in this release for the first time in several years (since we acquired the code which was originally licensed). The reason we changed Bitbridge this release is because we fixed a serious issue that would cause crashes with plugins that had a large amount of persist data. We built it with the newest Microsoft compiler and its likely that this enforced some of the more strict user account control that Microsoft has. As a result it is likely exposing UAC bugs in the original plugins preventing them from loading for unknown reasons to us. While this is technically not a bug in our code we will do what we can to work around it since these are legacy plugins. Once we have addressed this issue we will release an update to Bitbridge.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/05/31 09:30:18
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Kylotan
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 09:58:40
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For what it's worth, despite my other serious misgivings about this release, the Bitbridge change has apparently fixed one of my other synths which would never initialise properly until I loaded a preset for it. So it's not all bad!
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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msorrels
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 10:54:53
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One thing I did notice while doing a full rescan is that one of my older Crysonic (yes I still have them) plugins crashed freeing memory in the Microsoft C runtime DLL (I think it was msvc90 but I can't remember and don't have time this morning to reproduce). As a rule it's very tricky to mix C runtime DLLs. This was different. It's not that big a deal but a full reset and scan had a handful of 32bit plugins that were working fine before crashing. Nothing I cared about really though, but very different.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 11:21:38
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This issue has nothing to do with runtime dll's. Keep in mind that at Cakewalk we do our best to support legacy plugins (more so than any other DAW) but there is only so long that we can support plugins that have bugs and limitations that make them obsolete to run in modern software. If it indeed becomes impossible to support we may release the old bitbridge as is with no fixes as an alternate download, and move on to the newer version which will have future fixes.
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timp410
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 12:02:39
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I understand Noel, I guess I have no choice but to upgrade to ST3 to continue using the huge library of sounds I have for SampleTank. I have so many songs that use SampleTank and most of them are layered, my only choice is to freeze them. All new projects will use ST3 but it would be a tough task to try and duplicate the combi's again in ST3 unless ST3 can open combi's from ST2, that would be my wish. I will do my research on ST3.
Thanks for your assistance
Tim
Motherboard: ASUS Z97-A Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 Quad-Core Desktop Processor 3.4 GHZ LGA 1150 8 MB Cache Power Supply: Corsair CX Series 600 Watt Video: EVGA GeForce GT 730 2GB GDDR3 64-bit Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP Steinberg UR44 E-MU 1820M Edirol UA-25EX M-Audio Midisport 4x4
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dubdisciple
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 12:14:49
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timp410
I understand Noel, I guess I have no choice but to upgrade to ST3 to continue using the huge library of sounds I have for SampleTank. I have so many songs that use SampleTank and most of them are layered, my only choice is to freeze them. All new projects will use ST3 but it would be a tough task to try and duplicate the combi's again in ST3 unless ST3 can open combi's from ST2, that would be my wish. I will do my research on ST3.
Thanks for your assistance
Tim
IK does offer a less expensive option for those that are buying mostly to run old libraries
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SimpleManZ
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 12:34:08
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I am able to confirm that running Sonar as NOT administrator causes non of the IK32 bit plugs to launch.
This also affects Cakewalk's Pentagon too.
Running as Administrator makes everything 'skippy happy'.....well, at least so far.
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timp410
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 15:44:02
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I can confirm that IK Multimedia 32bit plug-ins launch with elevating privileges. This gives me away to access my projects and freeze the effective tracks.
Motherboard: ASUS Z97-A Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 Quad-Core Desktop Processor 3.4 GHZ LGA 1150 8 MB Cache Power Supply: Corsair CX Series 600 Watt Video: EVGA GeForce GT 730 2GB GDDR3 64-bit Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP Steinberg UR44 E-MU 1820M Edirol UA-25EX M-Audio Midisport 4x4
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msorrels
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 15:53:34
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Here's the crash on Crysonic's Sindo V3.5 plugin: Unhandled exception at 0x7793EA5F (ntdll.dll) in Bitbridge.exe: 0xC0000374: A heap has been corrupted (parameters: 0x77974270). > ntdll.dll!_RtlReportCriticalFailure@8 () Unknown ntdll.dll!_RtlpReportHeapFailure@4 () Unknown ntdll.dll!_RtlpLogHeapFailure@24 () Unknown ntdll.dll!_RtlFreeHeap@12 () Unknown kernel32.dll!_HeapFree@12 () Unknown msvcr90.dll!free(void * pBlock) Line 110 C SINDOV35.dll!1011c130() Unknown [Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for SINDOV35.dll] SINDOV35.dll!10045da8() Unknown Bitbridge.exe!0134e628() Unknown Bitbridge.exe!01357140() Unknown ntdll.dll!_NtWaitForSingleObject@12 () Unknown KernelBase.dll!_WaitForSingleObjectEx@12 () Unknown ntdll.dll!_ZwTestAlert@0 () Unknown ntdll.dll!_NtCreateEvent@20 () Unknown KernelBase.dll!_CreateEventExW@16 () Unknown The previous Bitbridge.exe didn't have this problem. Something is different about the way it's handling memory. Though it's definitely a problem with the plugin (no excuses there), it did work before. nXtasyV3Full also has the same problem. Astralis Orgone CM (from Computer Music's VST library) crashes when scanned. At least one plugin (can't remember which) complained about not being able to access the registry. Most likely would work if ran as Admin. I've seen a crash loading some 32 bit instrument vsts (to test) when exiting Sonar. They seemed to work ok, it was only the close that crashed. but I didn't bother even bringing it up in Visual Studio to see what crashed. It looks like the old Bit bridge was from 2011 so it has not been updated in awhile. I've always considered Sonar's 32-bit bridging one of its most important features. Until this release it was actually pretty solid.
post edited by msorrels - 2015/05/31 16:09:14
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msorrels
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 15:58:14
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Looks like the crash on close/exit was the older Plugsound Vol3 Drum vst Its crash looks similar to the heap issues with the Crysonic plugins:
Unhandled exception at 0x7793EA5F (ntdll.dll) in Bitbridge.exe: 0xC0000374: A heap has been corrupted (parameters: 0x77974270).
> ntdll.dll!_RtlReportCriticalFailure@8 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!_RtlpReportHeapFailure@4 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!_RtlpLogHeapFailure@24 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!_RtlFreeHeap@12 () Unknown
kernel32.dll!_HeapFree@12 () Unknown
PS03 - Drums&Percs.dll!100210d4() Unknown
[Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for PS03 - Drums&Percs.dll]
Bitbridge.exe!0134e1ed() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!01348fd2() Unknown
user32.dll!_InternalCallWinProc@20 () Unknown
user32.dll!_UserCallWinProcCheckWow@32 () Unknown
user32.dll!_DispatchClientMessage@24 () Unknown
user32.dll!___fnDWORD@4 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!_KiUserCallbackDispatcher@12 () Unknown
user32.dll!_NtUserGetMessage@16 () Unknown
user32.dll!_GetMessageA@16 () Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!013329f7() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!0133475f() Unknown
ntdll.dll!_NtQueryInformationProcess@20 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!_RtlEncodePointer@4 () Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!0136e60c() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!01369e94() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!01363ffe() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!01371e42() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!0137205b() Unknown
Bitbridge.exe!01363f27() Unknown
kernel32.dll!@BaseThreadInitThunk@12 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!___RtlUserThreadStart@8 () Unknown
ntdll.dll!__RtlUserThreadStart@8 () Unknown
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/05/31 18:10:34
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Thanks we'll look into it. Price of progress - we're in the process of upgrading Bitbridge and fixing some longstanding issues with it. The crash you list is definitely the plugin itself crashing rather than Bitbridge - most likely because its being denied admin access. I bet it would work if you gave SONAR admin privileges.
If you can PM me a link to download those plugins we can take a look and try and repro it. I dont think we have them inhouse since these are old plugins.
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John Joseph [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 13:29:21
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Does anyone have a specific NI plugin that exhibits this issue? I'm trying to verify it but don't have access to SampleTank 2.
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John Joseph [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 17:28:32
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subtlearts
Sampletank 2 runs fine here under Everett, as long as I run Sonar as administrator - otherwise it fails. It's been like that for some time now though.
So you saw this behavior before Everett?
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subtlearts
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 18:10:17
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johnjoseph
subtlearts
Sampletank 2 runs fine here under Everett, as long as I run Sonar as administrator - otherwise it fails. It's been like that for some time now though.
So you saw this behavior before Everett?
Definitely. I don't remember how far back but probably all of the X series. I don't really use ST much anymore but I have a whole ton of libraries for it (too many group buys! make them stop!) and there are certainly some great sounds in there. Haven't pulled the trigger on an upgrade to ST3 yet, I'm not really convinced yet.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 18:34:24
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So we tried Astralis Orgone CM,Crysonic and sample tank 2 and so far all of them behave the same with the old bb or the new one. I suspect with the heap corruption you just got lucky on your system.
Sample tank also behaves the same. It requires admin on the old build.
If you know of other 32 bit plugins that behave differently in everett let us know.
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msorrels
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 19:14:22
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Did you install Sampletank and it's libraries to someplace other than the C: drive and Program Files? I suspect that is why it works for me, since I don't use my C drive for any apps or vsts. Perhaps there are some Windows compatibility flags I could set for Bitbridge.exe to get the old behavior with the new version? Though I'm still not sure exactly what Sampletank needs admin rights for. I didn't see any registry access that would need to be elevated nor any file access (running Sys Internals' Procmon) But I didn't really spend a lot of time looking at it, maybe I missed something.
As for those other plugins and their heap crashes, they definitely work on my system pre-Everett and have for a fairly long time (X2 and X3 at least). They also work in Everett if I swap the Bitbridge.exe and Bitbridge.dll with the previous one (Sampletank works also). Not really the end of the world for me though, none of them are plugins I really use. I only noticed they were broken since I ended up doing a full scan and they crash on the scan.
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millzy
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 21:05:47
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I can confirm that my trusty old 32 bit Amplitube plugins exhibit the same problem after the Everett upgrade.
Millzy i7 3770K, 16gb ram, Samsung EVO SSD, 2 x WD drives, RME Babyface, Win 10 (x64), Cakewalk by Bandlab, heaps of other stuff.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/01 21:55:34
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msorrels
Did you install Sampletank and it's libraries to someplace other than the C: drive and Program Files? I suspect that is why it works for me, since I don't use my C drive for any apps or vsts. Perhaps there are some Windows compatibility flags I could set for Bitbridge.exe to get the old behavior with the new version? Though I'm still not sure exactly what Sampletank needs admin rights for. I didn't see any registry access that would need to be elevated nor any file access (running Sys Internals' Procmon) But I didn't really spend a lot of time looking at it, maybe I missed something.
As for those other plugins and their heap crashes, they definitely work on my system pre-Everett and have for a fairly long time (X2 and X3 at least). They also work in Everett if I swap the Bitbridge.exe and Bitbridge.dll with the previous one (Sampletank works also). Not really the end of the world for me though, none of them are plugins I really use. I only noticed they were broken since I ended up doing a full scan and they crash on the scan.
We installed Sample tank to its default location. If we could get a repro of the issue we might have better luck trying to get a workaround. We're using Win8 here and all the plugins we tried behave the same in both versions. Will try amplitube tomorrow if we can find an old 32 bit build. Heap corruption is very dependent on the image in memory, available RAM etc so its not that surprising that you might see a problem in the newest build since the memory image is quite different.
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John Joseph [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/02 08:57:36
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millzy
I can confirm that my trusty old 32 bit Amplitube plugins exhibit the same problem after the Everett upgrade.
Which problem is that? And why not upgrade to 64 bit?
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DeeringAmps
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/02 12:05:09
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Amplitube is a 32 bit app with a 64 bit dll. (LOTS of VST's are; most?)
ONLY SampleTank 3 is a 64 bit app.
The Amp3 32 bit dll works fine in Sonar Platinum x86 on my rigs.
(NOTE: Currently running Dorchester, not Everett; I'm not moving until the drum maps are fixed)
Running Amp3 in Sonar x64 (this goes back to sometime in SonarX3)
has caused constant crashing when closing projects containing Amp3.
Currently I'm running the Amp3x86 dll in Sonar x64 with with jBridge (bitbridge was no help).
Best $17.16 I've spent in a long time!
Frankly I'm not as enamored with x64 as many on the Forum.
But that's a topic for another thread.
Millzy, if your issue is with Amp3x64, check out jBridge.
If you're having issues in x86, I can't help you.
Tom
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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millzy
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/05 03:17:58
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Which problem is that? The plugins wont load unless Sonar is run as administrator. And why not upgrade to 64 bit? Up until now they've been running fine for me using bitbridge. But maybe you're right, it could be time for an upgrade! Millzy, if your issue is with Amp3x64, check out jBridge.
If you're having issues in x86, I can't help you. Thanks Tom but they're old x86 plugins. If I get sick of running Sonar as admin, I'll upgrade. I don't expect the old bangers to be supported for ever and a day!
post edited by millzy - 2015/06/05 03:28:04
Millzy i7 3770K, 16gb ram, Samsung EVO SSD, 2 x WD drives, RME Babyface, Win 10 (x64), Cakewalk by Bandlab, heaps of other stuff.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/05 06:32:14
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I checked with IK and they confirmed that their older plugins do indeed expect to be run a Admin so this is expected behavior.
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John Joseph [Cakewalk]
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/05 09:12:43
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Indeed. According to some users, only the scan, initialization, and authorization need to be run as Admin, after which it works. It is a long standing bug and was the behavior intended by IK Multimedia when they created their plugin.
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timp410
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Re: IK Multimedia instruments want load after upgrading to Everett
2015/06/11 11:18:42
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Crap! this latest update took away my abilities to use Sampletank with elevated privileges.
Motherboard: ASUS Z97-A Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 Quad-Core Desktop Processor 3.4 GHZ LGA 1150 8 MB Cache Power Supply: Corsair CX Series 600 Watt Video: EVGA GeForce GT 730 2GB GDDR3 64-bit Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP Steinberg UR44 E-MU 1820M Edirol UA-25EX M-Audio Midisport 4x4
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