Answered[Solved] Sonar X3 playback issues

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Mr Boo
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2013/12/15 09:41:48 (permalink)

[Solved] Sonar X3 playback issues

I am new to X3 but not new to Sonar by any means.  X3 is my third version and I have been using Home Studio 7 (to the limited extent that I need to use it)  for several years.   I am having trouble with X3 audio playback I can do something as simple as start a blank project, insert an audio track, import a known good audio file, and attempt to play back.  The audio sounds chopped as if it is picking up a quarter second then misses a quarter second over and over again.  Home Studio 7 is still installed and is working fine in every capacity and configuration I need\try.
 
I have installed X3 X64 on my desktop that is about three years old but has been babied.  I have dual Core 2 Quad 2.40 Ghz processors and 8 gig of ram.  The resource areas of cakewalk are reporting everything is in great shape.  For output I have a new Focusrite Scarlet 6i6 audio interface as well as a VRM Box and a M-Audio Delta 66.  Same result on all three output devices. I have tried changing the sample rate and it is currently at 44.1K  I have also played with the bit depth and it is currently at 16.  I did need to change to MME to be able to bring in inputs from my Voice Live Rack (and the current M-Audio ASIO drivers are grayed out when in ASIO mode).  But the bottom line is the new scarlet with their latest drives should not be an issue.  I haven't made any other changes other than adjust the grid snap adjust the Utilities\change audio format bit depth which is currently 16 and I have gone through the wave profiler after each preferences change.  
 
Am I missing something really stupid here?  LOL  What other information do I need to provide that I haven't thought of?
 
Thanks!
post edited by Mr Boo - 2013/12/18 17:48:35
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scook
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 10:45:32 (permalink)
You may recall that the ASIO specication only allows one I/O driver to be active at a time. In order to make the M-Audio interface available in ASIO mode, the Focusrite must have both input and outputs deselected in SONAR. Either way it sounds like you need to increase ASIO buffer size. Interface manufacturers supply programs to change the ASIO buffer size. You might want to consider using 24bit depth too. The only problem may be the "Voice Live Rack". I am not familiar with this. If it requires MME, it will be the weak link in your DAW solution and you should consider looking for an alternative.
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Mr Boo
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 15:32:02 (permalink)
Thank you for the response, Scook.  The Voice Live Rack is from tc-helicon. 
It can be used in a live setting or as a USB input into a DAW.  In this case, I can monitor a wet mic into the scarlet, where I can also lay it down as a wet track.  I can also bring in the same vocal dry directly from the Voice Live Rack USB output.  I also like to sometimes bring in reference music as I record, which is where the Delta comes in.  The Voice Live rack can also be it's own effects processor, by sending a track to the VLR USB input, processing it, then sending it back to a new track.  It's not something I do but the option is there.
 
In further research, I have been able to get clean playback in two scenarios.  One, is ASIO.  Thanks for the tip on only one ASIO device at a time.  I was able to make the Delta enabled by deselecting all of the Scarlet.  But leaving the Scarlet enabled, I was able to get clean playback via ASIO.
 
In WASAPI I was able to get clean playback if I only enabled the Scarlet OR the Delta.  In both cases the VRM Box could be enabled.  If at any time I enabled any area of the Delta or the Scarlet together, the garbled playback returned.  The issue in this configuration is, you can not have X3 and another music app (like a player) working at the same time.  Music stops if a player is working and you even bring the X3 interface to the focus.
 
In no form of configuration did MME provide clean playback.  Is it possible this isn't an option in the 64 bit version of X3 but is possible with the 32 bit version of X3?
 
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scook
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 15:47:04 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Mr Boo 2013/12/18 17:47:20
MME is the driver of last resort, not noted for performance. Connecting multiple audio interfaces from multiple vendors, in this case you identify three different audio interfaces is a tricky thing to do. Expecting more than one to work at a time is even trickier and prone to issues. I am guessing the VRM is connected through one of the audio interfaces or that would take the interface count to 4.
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Mr Boo
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 16:05:17 (permalink)
Thank you again for the reply!
Yes, it is four.  The VRM box is only used to monitor when close to a final mix so never more than three at a time. Having said that, I do not software monitor so these have always been simply to lay down tracks then playback through a single device.  I always assumed there were people with many more tracks coming in than what I am using. I must give a HUGE hat tip to Home Studio 7 because this has always been a piece of cake.  
Currently, MME isn't a resort at all..  LOL  By the way, I was set to 16 bit depth strictly for testing purposes.  Hopefully I can get this figured out, then I'll look at changing the depth.
 
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sharke
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 16:22:52 (permalink)
Remember there is no need for Sonar to even know about the VRM box if you connected it to the S/PDIF output of your Scarlet. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Mr Boo
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 17:01:07 (permalink)
Yes, I may have a method to do everything through the scarlet.  I have never used SPDIF so I may need to read up on what kind of cable is needed.  I have SPDIF out on the Voice Live Rack and I think I can send the same dry vocal that way.  Configure the Scarlet in ASIO, Track one in with Line 3 (Connected to Delta which is set to default playback) Track 2 to Mic 1 left (wet vocal from Voice Live Rack) and track three to SFDIF in Right (Connected to SPDIF out on the Voice Live Rack).
 
Better performance in, and all my other audio stuff stays the same..  Now I just need to confirm the Voice Live SPDIF out follows the settings from the USB digital out options.
 
Then SPDIF out from Scarlet to VRM box for monitoring when needed..  
 
Thanks for helping me think it through in a different way!  I think this has a great chance of being the right setup going forward, and I don't have to change anything on the old H.S 7 projects I want to leave alone.
 
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/15 17:25:29 (permalink)
I leave my on-board sound chip enabled, and make THAT my default Windows Audio Device, and ONLY have the ASIO drivers specified for use in Sonar.
 
This way, I can have a player open at the same time I am using Sonar, with Sonar using ASIO and the audio interface, and the rest of my Windows world using the on-board sound and WDM.
 
I get away with a single set of speakers, because I connect the speaker output mini-jack with the output split and adapted to 1/4" cords running to inputs on my audio interface.
 
So, I can control relative volume between it all, using the input gains on the interface, as well as the volume slider in Windows, and/or the main output volume for the audio interface.
 
This works well for me, as I routinely have an audio player "The Amazing Slow Downer" running to allow me to transcribe parts that I sequence into Sonar.
 
Please note that I turn Windows sounds off, as I got used to running that way when I used run everything live through a laptop, and I didn't feel like treating the crowd to the sounds of Windows booting up and such.  (this doesn't affect anything, just thought I would share it).
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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Mr Boo
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/18 15:16:21 (permalink)
I am happy to report that all is well in my ASIO world.  I am able to do exactly what I wanted to do by simply bringing everything into the Scarlett 6i6 inputs and using head phones on the scarlett, along with the VRM Box attached via SPDIF.  I've tested several recording with no hitches, pops, drops or errors.  Now, it's getting used to the changes and figuring out the plugs and settings but we can consider this initial inquiry answered and solved.
 
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scook
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/18 15:19:48 (permalink)
That is good news. BTW, only you can mark the thread answered and change the subject line adding SOLVED.
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Splat
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Re: Sonar X3 playback issues 2013/12/18 15:23:41 (permalink)
Brilliant - have a celebration by installing the X3D patch.
Cheers..

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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